When did lat nav marks change sides in UK

[cagey]

As header, curious what year did UK buoyage swap over.
Thanks
K

 

[JumbleDuck]

As header, curious what year did UK buoyage swap over.
Thanks
K

From 1977, I think.

http://journals.cambridge.org/actio...e=online&aid=6651328&fileId=S0373463300048876

 

[cagey]

As an extra was it topmarks and colours or just colours.

 

[snowleopard]

As an extra was it topmarks and colours or just colours.

IIRC it was just black changing to green (which had previously been the colour for wreck buoys).

 

[skip50]

IIRC it was just black changing to green (which had previously been the colour for wreck buoys).

IIRC that was when we introduced cardinal buoys, as an extra to the lateral ones. SL, I forgotten the colour change from black to green but I think you are correct. I never understood why wreck buoys were different-weren't they just another danger?

 

[jbweston]

I don't think buoys in the UK ever 'changed sides'. Not in the sense of swapping right over like from IALA A to IALA B or vice versa. Certainly not in my sailing lifetime - the last 50 years.

Red has always been port hand (going in the direction of buoyage). As described above, starboard hand used to be black (or black and white checker pattern I seem to remember, although I'm not sure about that) and was swapped for green. The introduction of cardinal buoyage seemed strange and revolutionary at the time and yet now seems so logical and simple.

At the risk of drifting the thread, I've been interested to note that German and Finnish 'red' buoys are closer to what we might call 'orange' - but that's still very different from green. Many Finnish cardinal marks don't have the triangular/diamond/hourglass topmarks but only the banded colouring, which makes them right pains to identify when the light is bad or behind them. I reckon the standardised cardinal topmarks and lights are a really clever part of the system.

 

[Sybarite]

Red has always been port hand (going in the direction of buoyage)..

It's a pity that in America, it's the other way round.

 

[tri39]

I still have one of the explanatory stickers on board saying "yachtsmen are advised to familiarise themselves with the new buoyage marks"! I think there was a conference at which the Americans and Europeans could not agree on a common system, hence "A" and "B".

 

[snowleopard]

It's a pity that in America, it's the other way round.

But remember that in America the cans are still port and the cones starboard

 

[oldvarnish]

I think there was a conference at which the Americans and Europeans could not agree on a common system, hence "A" and "B".

Indeed there was. The American attitude was the 'we've got more marks than anyone else, so why should we change?'

The also didn't adopt the IALA A system, as a consequence their buoyage is quite a mess, especially where two waterways meet - which was always a problem with the old lateral system.

As an American yachtsman said to me when I was sailing there..'I don't know how you guys get on. We can't understand it and we live here!'

 

[VicS]

This diagram dates from around 1974. IIRC the change to the IALA system was phased in over a 2 or 3 year period around 1977/78/79. I think the south coast may have been the last area to change. I can remember it changing in the Solent so it must have been about 1979.

The direction changed in part of the Solent as well so the port and starboard buoys swapped sides

 

[AndrewB]

Indeed there was. The American attitude was the 'we've got more marks than anyone else, so why should we change?'

The also didn't adopt the IALA A system, as a consequence their buoyage is quite a mess, especially where two waterways meet - which was always a problem with the old lateral system.

As an American yachtsman said to me when I was sailing there..'I don't know how you guys get on. We can't understand it and we live here!'

Possibly the only cardinal mark in North American waters is a N cardinal at the north end of Fighting Island in the Detroit River where the two channels either side of the island meet (42°14'.9N, 83°07'.0W). It is on the international border between USA and Canada, so not sure which side it belongs to.

As one American mobo-er passed us he remarked loudly "What the **** is that thing!". He drove over to take a closer look and promptly ran aground.

 

[AndrewB]

This diagram dates from around 1974. IIRC the change to the IALA system was phased in over a 2 or 3 year period around 1977/78/79. I think the south coast may have been the last area to change. I can remember it changing in the Solent so it must have been about 1979.

The direction changed in part of the Solent as well so the port and starboard buoys swapped sides

Thanks for that little trip down memory lane. Black buoys were always easier to see than green, and the colour change was not necessarily for the better.

I seem to recall that in the early 1970-s Trinity House experimented with their own version of cardinal marks in the northern part of the Thames Estuary. These were coloured differently, with far more visible top-marks than the international standard eventually adopted (proposed I think by France). But I cannot now remember what they looked like - does anyone recall them?

 

[capnsensible]

http://www.google.com.gi/url?sa=t&r...DP0OIh5Z_HJRIvCLAw4GVuA&bvm=bv.75097201,d.d2s

If the above link works, there is the history of IALA in a pdf formay. Will bowl out some of the assumptions!

If not, google International Association of Lighthouse Authorities and its the 8th entry down.

I can vaguely remember the previous system, particularly the black SHM's on approach to Pompey with their white lights and a green wreck buoy in Stokes Bay. :ambivalence:

Was going to say I never have had a problem with IALA B as its used all over the Windies, but can recall a delivery from Miami to Gib where just after leaving the first dock, one of my crew, an Ameican girl went the wrong side of a mark and we ran aground. My fault obviously, but' stay to that side (pointing) of that stick whilst I nip below for a quick pee' didn't translate well!

Nice person though. Californian.

 

[bikedaft]

This diagram dates from around 1974. IIRC the change to the IALA system was phased in over a 2 or 3 year period around 1977/78/79. I think the south coast may have been the last area to change. I can remember it changing in the Solent so it must have been about 1979.

The direction changed in part of the Solent as well so the port and starboard buoys swapped sides

thanks for posting that (trip down memory lane) looking at musty old almanacs on a rainy day cos nothing else to read, as a kid

 

[snowleopard]

I saw a black cone buoy on the river Camel about 5 years ago. I presume it was a hangover from the pre-IALA days

 

[Daydream believer]

From 1977, I think.

http://journals.cambridge.org/actio...e=online&aid=6651328&fileId=S0373463300048876

You know I used to run aground a lot in the 70's. I always blamed my seafarer echo sounder

 

[johnalison]

The old system had its advantages, especially for the colour blind. I have normal colour vision, but occasionally find it hard to distinguish red and green buoys against the sun.

Although we are used to the cardinal system, the use of "division" buoys is much more common on the Continent, where it can be very helpful in branching river systems and places such as the watt passages in Friesland.

 

[VicS]

The old system had its advantages, especially for the colour blind. I have normal colour vision, but occasionally find it hard to distinguish red and green buoys against the sun.

And this sytem that appeared near my mooring a couple of years or so back did not help in that respect

What is it port or starboard?

Like this one

or this one

They were soon sorted out but not before this snap happy forumite got out there with his camera.

Actually it was the port one of this pair

 

[johnalison]

And this sytem that appeared near my mooring a couple of years or so back did not help in that respect

What is it port or starboard?]

Brilliant. He (I presume) deserves a knighthood.