when are sails and rigging worn out?

little shack

little shack

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hello just learning to sail at moment.looking at buying a boat back end next year if all goes well.I have seen different posts about sails and rigging i'll be buying something a bit older, my question is do the sails and therefore the rigging last a set number of years or is it manely a usage thing and how they've been looked after ect. AND HOW do you tell.
 
Rigging you can't really tell - I hear that most insurance compamnies like it changed every ten years.
Sails is a different kettle of fish. It depends on material(type & quality), usage, care etc etc. The easiest way to check the condition of a sail is to go sailing with it and have a look. Any damaged bits, loose stitching etc should be fairly apparent, and again depending on the material may be fixable. The key thing to look at is the flying shape of the sail. I don't mean to sound condescending but if you are new to sailing I would recommend getting somebody more experienced to have a look at the shape for you - it is a complex business.
Having said all that, if the sails are Dacron(terylene) the shape might be awful but they will still work and continue to do so for many years. Laminate sails tend to 'die' sooner.
 
little shack said:
hello just learning to sail at moment.looking at buying a boat back end next year if all goes well.I have seen different posts about sails and rigging i'll be buying something a bit older, my question is do the sails and therefore the rigging last a set number of years or is it manely a usage thing and how they've been looked after ect. AND HOW do you tell.
Click to expand...

Proper old-fashioned god-fearing terylene: worn out when you can see through them

Modern hi-tech super-whizzy how-fecking-much laminates: worn out when you can't see through them
 
If you're going to spend a fair amount on the boat, you will be having it surveyed. The report will detail the condition of sails and rigging as well as all the rest.
From a general point of view, sails deteriorate by being badly stored, UV and too much wind - especially flapping.
Rigging may suffer from bad handling during mast up/down, kinks, wrapped genny hallyard (roller reefing misuse), boom on lowers etc. and fittings often break before wire.
If none of the above, then old age causes a passing of the 'use-by' date...
However, from an age point of view, if the rigging was designed like a brick outhouse, it will probably cruise gently on long after you have sold the boat. The converse. of course is also true.
As for sails: they do perform and look better when new. The old, baggy, rustmarked, grey ones won't do you or the boat justice, so change them later, when you can afford to, and don't let them stop you buying a boat you have fallen for .
 
Think about how you intend using the boat;
Intensive racing - you need the latest & best, change everything.
Long distance offshore cruising - you need strong & reliable gear.
Pottering around learning to sail - it don't really matter that much as long as you keep sewing the seams & washing them in the bath tub. :D

I assume you are mainly pottering, so change any running rigging that is frayed (sometimes end for ending will remove the frayed bit from strain). Standing rigging should be checked for loose/ broken stands & check all fittings for staining & cracks. Sails shouldn't be too baggy - but this will only reduce your ability to point & make you slightly slower.
 
If your main looks like this (my Foxcub main when I bought it) I think it's time to renew.

mainbagginess.jpg

A new one sorted it

sailcomparison.jpg
 
If the sails have holes, and you can tear them easily by pulling apart at the damage, they are shot .Too weak from UV to expect them to set in any wind, so dont rely on them.
The previous photos show a typical example of a shrunken bolt rope . Any prestretched polyester rope shrinks with age and use.
Its possible to retension a bolt rope on both luff and foot to improve the shape of the sail provided its not hand sewn to the luff tape.Sail sometimes gets longer though:)And may need shortening to fit.
Cindy
 
Courageous said:
Clear difference for sure but surely to God you didn't sail her with such little main halyard tension did you?
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Halyard tension is not the main problem here. It would not have been posssible to get a smooth luff however much you hauled down on the halyard. Same with the foot. You would never get enough tension to stretch the boltropes.

The problem is that the luff rope is now too short because the sailcloth has stretched. Not worthwhile with a sail as bad as that, but if the material was still sound, a sailmaker could replace the bolt rope, so it 'fits' the stretched sail, giving it a further lease of life for non-competitive pottering. Much cheaper than a new main for a cheapo jollyboat.

EDit: Lakesailored by 2 minutes! :(
 
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Yep the undertensioned halyard may show a similar bag,but if you ease the bolt rope ,letting the retaining handstitching at the ends go in the sail, its always fascinating how long the sail becomes beyond the available bolt rope.From 5" to 18" in my experience so you usually have to recut to shorten it back to the spar lenghts!
Lakesailors main was machine roped,More problematical to correct without fitting new edges so new main a better bet in this case.

Cindy
 
little shack said:
hello just learning to sail at moment.looking at buying a boat back end next year if all goes well.I have seen different posts about sails and rigging i'll be buying something a bit older, my question is do the sails and therefore the rigging last a set number of years or is it manely a usage thing and how they've been looked after ect. AND HOW do you tell.
Click to expand...

If the owner does not explicitly give the following info in his advert, I would be sure to ask

Please describe age and condition of sail, standing rigging and engine. Assuming hull is ok these are the major items of expenditure if requiring replacement.
 
Courageous said:
Clear difference for sure but surely to God you didn't sail her with such little main halyard tension did you?
Click to expand...
Reading my reply in the cold light of day I have elected to remove it and have appologised to Capt Couragous later in this thread for the tone of my comments.
 
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I think the sails on my Centaur are quite good, they set nice and are crinkly and stiff when I try to stow them, no idea how old they are but I think they will do me for a while.

My old man has the original 1982 main on his Jeanneau, it looks and feels reasonable. He took it for a repair to a little 1" split but the chap said it's the first of many, the sail is shot, but it still works OK for what he wants to do with it, and the sail may have more seasons in it than him.

It's up to you, a tarpaulin off a lorry cut to a triangle will make you go, but if you want to point or go fast, good sails are well worth it.
 
Buying an old boat

All of the above advice is good except... Standing rigging ie the 1X19 Stainless Steel wire that holds the mast up does fail in the region of 20+ years without warning or signs of failure. Insurance companies will insist that it be replaced if too old. I think certainly after 15 years. This figure regardless of it being raced not used or even stored in a shed. Even gentle cruising you will still get caught out with too much sail and have the "boat on its beam ends" ie knocked over. Failure of the wire will result in loss of mast. Cap and intermediate side stays are most critical.
Sails as said can make difference to your performance hence pleasure. Unlike a car you do want the boat to perform at its very best. It actually makes sailing easier. An old dacron sail feels lovely and soft. A new sail feels stiff and noisy. This is because the cloth is treated with a binder which deteriorates. However a sail can still work well when the binder has gone. As said go for sail with an expert. If you don't have an expert you will have to decide yourself. You will probably want new sails especially jib after a while.
I have averaged 5 years for most of my sails. (hard usage) good luck olewill
 
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