whats your boat, and at what wind speed to you reef?

Elizabethan 29. Designed to go fastest (to windward) with the lee rail under.
I don't have an anemometer but I change headsails (genoa for jib) at the top end of F3, going to windward. Later if well off the wind. Tuck the 1st reef in the main at the top of F4, second at F5, third above F6 and run for port after that!
 
Trapper 500, consider reefing when it's more force 5 than 4. Force 4 is 11 -16 knots and 5 is 17-21. I have a wind speed indicator and if its pushing 5 as opposed to just passing 4, its time to think of reefing - depending on how things feel.

The Trapper handbook suggests reefing early
 
The answer depend on the seastate as well as the wind but 'when it is better'.

Some cruser owners brag about the ability to carry full sail well into F5 -WHY? This just means that the boat is dead in a F2 -F3!

We have a tall rig and large sail area on a cruiser racer hull, high tech but still woven sails, fully battened mainsail with 3 slab reefs and a flattener reef as well so a powerful set up. In a pi$$ing contest we can carry full genoa and full main hard on the wind at 25kts apparent. That is with the traveller right off and all the flattening devices on, plus in the unlikely event she would do it I would have SWMBO on the rail as well. However if we wanted to go faster and in more comfort, we would put the first reef in at above 16kts apparent if this became the steady wind and we would then be at our optimum 7kts boatspeed at around 28degs apparent wind angle. We would still have a full genoa until say 20kts apparent. Note I say 'apparent' wind because hard on the wind that 16kts is apparent and with our VMG that is only F3 true wind. Downwind we can carry pretty well what we chose and enjoy the sleigh ride, on a reach again we go faster with a reef in earlier, probably still that magic 16kts figure. Our best heel angle also equates to the convex helm seat being level on the uphill side or the cambered coaming likewise, full marks to the designer for comfort ergonomics!

Then again, those boats with inmast mains are reefed the equivalent of a normal first reef from the get go, same applies to having a 100/110% genoa instead of a more normal reefing 130% +/- one or 150% on a hanked on lightNo1.

So If someone says full sail in a F5 that would be a F6 apparent wind speed upwind and those boats must motor in anything under a F4, boring!
 
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Slight digression, but if you're carrying a lot of sail downwind, more that you'd carry on the wind, how do you then shorten sail? On your rig can you drop the main without rounding up?

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Well in reality we rarely do carry too much downwind these days (lost my gungho) but it depends on the angle of 'downwind'. Dead downwind in a blow I'd rather have the main stowed and then use the roller genoa alone. On a broad reach the main could be up or not depending on mood and what the wind was doing when we hoisted it!

We once left Cherbourg for Poole with a forecast SW 5-7 that turned out to be a constant F7/8 and for several hours a full F8 once we were 10mls out and clear of the wind shadow of land. We left with a full main and genoa in F5 and carried it easily until over on the UK side and the tide switched to west going, we were making over 10kts most of the time. The pilot (which was on all the way) was struggling with the seas at times after the tide turned and so we reefed, actually dropping from no reefs at all to 3 reefs in the main and a lot of genoa rolls in one go, our speed was still around 9kts! We have 2-line reefing from the cockpit and on this occasion we rolled the genoa away and came round onto a beam reach to depower everything, kill the boatspeed and stay dry, more or less lying a-hull whilst we pulled each reef in. However we could have pulled the main reefs in off the wind as we have a masthead rig with in-line spreaders and the fully battened sail is on proper roller bearing mast cars on a track. We have reefed off the wind before without rounding up but in rather less wind than on that day and less risk of sail chafe on the rigging which is the concern. 2-line reefing helps here as the tack line can be used to pull the luff down once the halyard is released.

If we were to want to fully drop the main in extremis then the best way would be to pull in the 3rd reef and go from there but that would then need someone at the mast (at least we have granny bars!) to pull the last bit down into the lazyjacks and put a couple of ties on as from choice we don't have a stackpack.
 
Trapper 500

Wind speeds are approx with some gusting upto higher figure; also depends on sea conditions and crew strengh.

up to 12kts full main and 160% light weight genoa

12- 18kts full main 150% genoa

18 - 22kts First reef main move genoa car aft

22 - 26kts First reef main 130% genoa

26 - 30kts second reef main 100% working jib

above 30 I have third reef and storm jib but I've only really used them in fairly sheltered waters. I was suprised just how well the boat sailed with them.
 
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but if you're carrying a lot of sail downwind, more that you'd carry on the wind, how do you then shorten sail?

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Not aimed at me, but I'll aswer how I do it - with a fully battened Tape Drive sail.

Steer near a dead run but safe enough to be out of gybe territory. Pull in topping lift to lift boom by 20 degrees. Centre traveller and pull in mainsheet against topping lift to stabilize the boom. Drop main halyard abour 2m. The mainsail is now scandalized. It has no aerofoil shape at all - even with full battens - as sections flop from one side to the other. Now when turning upwind, it gives no drive, and it is possible to reef.

I have ball-race batten cars which slide even under load. This may not work with a bolt-rope sail.
 
Ah based upon a windyish trip back from Cherbourg on Sat.

Rival 38 with 140% genoa. All up until apparent wind greater than 15 knots then 140% gets reduced to about 110%, over 20 knot 1 reef and 100%, over 25 knots 2 reefs and 80%. We got that little lot on Saturday from 9 to 6....

We've never had to use the 3rd reef but have sailed with 2 reefs and a storm jib in 40 knots.
 
With a choice of 5 stages of reefing, and almost being a one-handed job, I've got no set pattern.
Whenever I feel it needs a bit of reefing, it gets it!
Newbridge Coromandel.
 
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So flattening reef and Cunningham on when consistently above 15kt. One reef in main and put the number 2 on when consistently above 18kt. Two reefs and number 3 when consistently above 24kt

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Experience is slowly teaching me the same lesson. Despite being an older, heavier design (and probably short of sail when there is less than 6 or 7 knots of breeze) these guide lines seem to apply to Aeolus as well.

Jeff.
 
Thanks for the replies from Robin and Angus. Our rig has slugs for the mainsail and I doubt I'd be able to get the main down or even reefed while it's powered up. I might try scandalising and see how that works out.

I think the answer is not to get caught with too much sail downwind. It certainly concerned me in the Wayfarer, as it always felt quite vulnerable during that rounding up stage before the sail is fully spilling.
 
Cobra 850 with Bilge Keels. IMHO there is no hard and fast rule for reefing...certainly quoted wind speeds should be of little or no importance, but more a case of how is she performing in the conditions you are experiencing.
However for those of you that like numbers, I guess that we would carry sail as follows:

Full Main + 160% - to F3
Full Main + 100% - to F4 (flat water)
First Reef + 100% - to F4 (lumpy)
Second Reef + 2 turns in the 100% - F5 +
If third reef is needed, start the engine and head for shelter...why make life difficult!
 
Never bothered to check ... but can say that it would be different anyway dependent on apparent wind direction, sea state, shallow / deep water, etc.
My main boat is a Sunrider 25 Bilge Keeler so tends to slip sideways when hard pressed and also lays over easily to an angle then stiffens considerably ... needing a lot to get her further over. But if you are at that angle - you are well passed needing to reef.
 
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Thanks for the replies from Robin and Angus. Our rig has slugs for the mainsail and I doubt I'd be able to get the main down or even reefed while it's powered up. I might try scandalising and see how that works out.

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Under normal circumstances it shouldn't be too hard to round up and reef rather than try it when going downwind and the most comfortable sometimes is to reduce the headsail if you have RR so it doesn't back onto the spreaders then heave to and do the main. What I wouldn't do is try to go head to wind and do it in any sea, that way leads to wet feet and bruises. Lying across the wind with the headsail furled and the mainsheet right off whilst you reef too is quite effective which is what I described earlier but after a long period of strong winds the seas might make it harder. It is much easier with a fully crewed raceboat of course, then you just delegate the job to the one with the designer oilies and leather boots.
 
Glad to hear your replies and i find them all very interesting. I have also spoken to people in the club who say they never reef. My thought is they never sail in moderate to strong winds.
my own gib is 140% so I reef this early otherwise it can be overpowering and I get into trouble with the crew for stretching her legs too much hehe. But i agree that the less heal sometimes means more speed, althought it doesnt seem like it at the time sometimes..........
Thanks for all the info guys and girls..............
 
Peculiarity of Shipman's

I also sail a Shipman and have found that I have to reduce the Genny pretty quickly because of severe weather helm. Unfortunately my boat has had the trim tab removed - do you still have yours fitted. I am guessing that this can help stabilise the helm especially as the apparent wind increases.

We too sail with a 140% Genny and the original main, and with 2 reefs in the main and 2/3rds of the main, we can still make 8 knots in 15 knots of apparent wind with manageable weather helm.
 
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