Erik C
Well-Known Member
You would have to clean out your whole fuel system, the red dye is detectable in very small parts.
What's the RYA's response to British boats being BANNED from Belgium?
- Thread starter GlennG
- Start date
You would have to clean out your whole fuel system, the red dye is detectable in very small parts.
sailorman
Well-Known Member
we have 130 lts tankage
a MoBo on the other hand will hold 1000s.
the issue is Belgium only legitimately allows "Undyed" fuel, Red we have is tax paid that is not the problem Phill its the colour.
Marinas only stock Red & bringing white into the marina in cans via the car is fraught with spillage problems.
Erik C
Well-Known Member
Belgium's interpretation is the same as the Dutch, French or any other one. They only differ in that they are more aggressive enforcing it.
Tradewinds
Well-Known Member
250 litres in mine
.Sad thing is I cleaned my fuel tank out before this Belgian thing really kicked in.
I put back the 180+ litres of slightly pink fuel I'd taken out to clean the tank
.I'm sure 99 times out of 100 you won't be checked - but who wants to be the 1% & get a big fine? The decision - to go or not - is one many of us on the east coast will have to make.
Phoenix of Hamble
Well-Known Member
Have made.
We wont be going.
Filling with white is very impractical for us. Large tank and long way to nearest fuel station. The fine, based on capacity, not fuel on board is potentially several thousand Euros for us. Too big to risk.
So we'll take our money to The Netherlands instead.
We wont be going.
Filling with white is very impractical for us. Large tank and long way to nearest fuel station. The fine, based on capacity, not fuel on board is potentially several thousand Euros for us. Too big to risk.
So we'll take our money to The Netherlands instead.
Tradewinds
Well-Known Member
Make sure you're out of Belgian territorial waters if you go to S. Holland (which I know you will 
).
).
Erik C
Well-Known Member
If you go make sure you have a fuel bill showing full VAT paid and DO NOT store any fuel on deck in jerrycans.
sailorman
Well-Known Member
photodog
Lord High Commander of Upper Broughton and Gunthor
What we need to do is get the good burghers of Belgistan bitching as well....
I suggest a two pronged approach.
1) Frustrating action in Belgistan... Booking berths/ tables etc in large quantities... (For Rally's for instance..). then cancelling at the last minute due to a sudden realisation that we dont want to risk getting fined...
2) Harrasment action in the UK of Belgistan registered yachts... Random inspections of gas systems..... Strict enforcement of customs clearing and ensign etiquette..... Checks on their fuel to ensure that they have paid correct duty...(Ie... lets see the reciepts..) ... bring in new local collision regs that mean Belgistan yachts give way ALL THE TIME!! Mandatory C of E baptism for all children under 5.
If all else fails land a expeditionairy force in Oostende, seize all the port facilites and best nosh houses.
I suggest a two pronged approach.
1) Frustrating action in Belgistan... Booking berths/ tables etc in large quantities... (For Rally's for instance..). then cancelling at the last minute due to a sudden realisation that we dont want to risk getting fined...
2) Harrasment action in the UK of Belgistan registered yachts... Random inspections of gas systems..... Strict enforcement of customs clearing and ensign etiquette..... Checks on their fuel to ensure that they have paid correct duty...(Ie... lets see the reciepts..) ... bring in new local collision regs that mean Belgistan yachts give way ALL THE TIME!! Mandatory C of E baptism for all children under 5.
If all else fails land a expeditionairy force in Oostende, seize all the port facilites and best nosh houses.
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prv
Well-Known Member
Doesn't matter which government is right and which government is wrong, and on this issue I don't particularly care. The problem is us people in between who are not governments and have no option open to us.
My last two fuel fill-ups were white (UK road fuel in jerrycans cos the fuel barge was closed, and French white from Cherbourg) but the filter bowl is still pink.
Fortunately I'm a bit far round the corner from Belgium for it to be a personal worry, but if you're on the East Coast it must be a serious concern.
Pete
sailorman
Well-Known Member
the latter would be more realistic, could we rely on a Commonwealth Force
Tradewinds
Well-Known Member
I'll rise to that one (sorry Sailorman
)With the Belgians, it's not the duty paid - it's the fact that you've got dyed / marked diesel in your tanks. - Red normally - same as the type
Erik C
Well-Known Member
I'll rise to that one (sorry Sailorman
With the Belgians, it's not the duty paid - it's the fact that you've got dyed / marked diesel in your tanks. - Red normally - same as the type
Sorry, but my post was referring to Holland, not Belgium. And although some people found it boring it is accurate. I am Dutch.
photodog
Lord High Commander of Upper Broughton and Gunthor
Canada stands with the mother country!
Hell... I am already forcing almost everyone to give way to me anyways...
What does the Belgistan ensign look like?
sailorman
Well-Known Member
jordanbasset
Well-Known Member
Just found this on the RYA site
http://www.rya.org.uk/infoadvice/boatingabroad/Pages/reddieselabroad.aspx
Reproduced here
'Red Diesel Abroad
Although it is still legal to purchase red diesel for use in pleasure craft in the UK, this is not the case in many other EU countries. Boaters who have filled their tanks with red diesel in the UK occasionally experience difficulties whilst abroad.
Boaters who have filled their tanks with red diesel in the UK should be permitted to use this fuel elsewhere in the EU.
The EU Directorate-General for Taxation and Customs has confirmed that:-
"According to the Community excise legislation and the jurisprudence of the European Court of Justice, in case of fuel transported in the normal fuel storage tank, the excise duty is chargeable in the Member State of acquisition according to the national rules
It falls upon the Commission to enforce the compliance of national legislation with Community law
People can acquire red diesel in the UK and use it legally in another member state of the European Union, if transported in the normal fuel storage tank."
A copy of the letter the RYA received from the EU Directorate-General for Communication is provided under downloads. The document contains the letter as received (in English) and translations into relevant languages obtained by the RYA.
The EU Directorate-General for Communication has indicated that the onus of proving that full duty has been paid remains strictly with the purchaser.
Specific Advice for Boaters visiting Belgium:-
The RYA has received reports of fines from boaters who have been found with marked 'red' diesel in their tanks in Belgium, despite having the paperwork to show that it is duty paid. If you go to Belgium with marked 'red' diesel in the tanks of your boat, you must be aware that you risk receiving a significant fine. The RYA is working to address this issue - learn more.
Specific Advice for Boaters visiting Netherlands:-
According to the Embassy of the Kingdom of the Netherlands in London, the official policy for the use of Red Diesel in the Netherlands is as follows:
"You can fill up your tanks with red diesel, but not take more fuel with you then the amount [capacity] of your tanks. You have to be able to show the receipt, which can’t be older than 1 year old. On the receipt should be written that “the difference in tax between white and red diesel is paid by [to] the UK Government (the 60/40 notice)”. According to the Dutch Customs this should be on the receipt automatically [we take this to mean it must be printed not hand written]. If you keep to these points and can show the above mentioned papers and notes the Dutch Customs can’t fine you.
"The National Office Customs Administration of the Netherlands is aware that the Regional Custom Offices are not always dealing in according to this policy and have made the National Policy clear, once again, to all the Regional Offices. The National Office has made it clear to us that if you still would get a Fine, they only can investigate this on an individual basis and advise that in that case you keep all the paperwork."
Advice for boaters visiting other EU member states:-
The RYA recommends that recreational boaters visiting other EU member states:-
Keep receipts for diesel purchased in the UK, to prove that it was bought in the UK, and request that your retailer marks them "duty paid".
You should also log the date of refuelling and engine hours to reinforce these records;
Do not carry red diesel anywhere other than in their craft's main fuel storage tanks; and
Do not purchase red diesel in a country where the purchasing of rebated fuel by leisure craft is prohibited by law
Still have more questions? Contact at legal@rya.org.uk or telephone 0844 5569519"
Seems RYA are working on this, fortunately the Dutch have taken a sensible approach to this issue
http://www.rya.org.uk/infoadvice/boatingabroad/Pages/reddieselabroad.aspx
Reproduced here
'Red Diesel Abroad
Although it is still legal to purchase red diesel for use in pleasure craft in the UK, this is not the case in many other EU countries. Boaters who have filled their tanks with red diesel in the UK occasionally experience difficulties whilst abroad.
Boaters who have filled their tanks with red diesel in the UK should be permitted to use this fuel elsewhere in the EU.
The EU Directorate-General for Taxation and Customs has confirmed that:-
"According to the Community excise legislation and the jurisprudence of the European Court of Justice, in case of fuel transported in the normal fuel storage tank, the excise duty is chargeable in the Member State of acquisition according to the national rules
It falls upon the Commission to enforce the compliance of national legislation with Community law
People can acquire red diesel in the UK and use it legally in another member state of the European Union, if transported in the normal fuel storage tank."
A copy of the letter the RYA received from the EU Directorate-General for Communication is provided under downloads. The document contains the letter as received (in English) and translations into relevant languages obtained by the RYA.
The EU Directorate-General for Communication has indicated that the onus of proving that full duty has been paid remains strictly with the purchaser.
Specific Advice for Boaters visiting Belgium:-
The RYA has received reports of fines from boaters who have been found with marked 'red' diesel in their tanks in Belgium, despite having the paperwork to show that it is duty paid. If you go to Belgium with marked 'red' diesel in the tanks of your boat, you must be aware that you risk receiving a significant fine. The RYA is working to address this issue - learn more.
Specific Advice for Boaters visiting Netherlands:-
According to the Embassy of the Kingdom of the Netherlands in London, the official policy for the use of Red Diesel in the Netherlands is as follows:
"You can fill up your tanks with red diesel, but not take more fuel with you then the amount [capacity] of your tanks. You have to be able to show the receipt, which can’t be older than 1 year old. On the receipt should be written that “the difference in tax between white and red diesel is paid by [to] the UK Government (the 60/40 notice)”. According to the Dutch Customs this should be on the receipt automatically [we take this to mean it must be printed not hand written]. If you keep to these points and can show the above mentioned papers and notes the Dutch Customs can’t fine you.
"The National Office Customs Administration of the Netherlands is aware that the Regional Custom Offices are not always dealing in according to this policy and have made the National Policy clear, once again, to all the Regional Offices. The National Office has made it clear to us that if you still would get a Fine, they only can investigate this on an individual basis and advise that in that case you keep all the paperwork."
Advice for boaters visiting other EU member states:-
The RYA recommends that recreational boaters visiting other EU member states:-
Keep receipts for diesel purchased in the UK, to prove that it was bought in the UK, and request that your retailer marks them "duty paid".
You should also log the date of refuelling and engine hours to reinforce these records;
Do not carry red diesel anywhere other than in their craft's main fuel storage tanks; and
Do not purchase red diesel in a country where the purchasing of rebated fuel by leisure craft is prohibited by law
Still have more questions? Contact at legal@rya.org.uk or telephone 0844 5569519"
Seems RYA are working on this, fortunately the Dutch have taken a sensible approach to this issue
sailorman
Well-Known Member
Canada stands with the mother country!
Hell... I am already forcing almost everyone to give way to me anyways...
What does the Belgistan ensign look like?
they are amongst us
walls have ears 
Tradewinds
Well-Known Member
I thought the OP post was about Belgium 
& P of H's reply was about that issue.
& P of H's reply was about that issue.
photodog
Lord High Commander of Upper Broughton and Gunthor
they are amongst us
Can he hear you typeing from his berth??
Saying that... that barge is big enough for a secret suite of listening equipment... might also explain how he has managed to spend so much money....
Seajet
...
It may well be that the RYA legal dept. are doing or have done great work, but the organisation needs a good boot in the backside to use it effectively; this was exactly the case with the Studland Bay seahorses & anchoring situation; it took uproar on these forums and the formation of BORG to shake the RYA into useful action, even though the legal guys had done very well a while before.
