What's the RYA's response to British boats being BANNED from Belgium?

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GlennG

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Probably the most significant event to affect our sport, the effective banning of British boats from Belgium should be calling the RYA to action. I CANNOT BUY ANY OTHER THAN RED DIESEL, therefore it's illegal for me to go to Belgium. From what I see, it's a slow-burner with various articles being published, for example the lead news article in this month's YM (March 2012), but not a lot else.

I really like going to Oostende; a really nice destination. The North Sea Yacht Club is fantastic, as is the famous Robert. And the moule-frite are to die for, even challenging the kebab and chips in Ramsgate.

However, I'm damned if I'm going to be caught up in a game of Fine the Yachtie by a bunch of Belgoid plods. Arguing with them is like wrestling a pig (pun intended). From my experiences with dealing with Belgian bureaucracy, they really do love it.

So now the issue has been forced, we're caught up in the mess that should be sorted out by our governments with the RYA screaming at them to sort it out. To quote from the RYA site: "We continue to lobby the Directorate for Taxation and Customs".

Great, in the meantime it's us the Yachties who are going to be caught in the middle.

So where's the advice that says KEEP OUT OF BELGIUM? What about a forced refuge there -- doesn't this contravene any international shipping laws? What about the RYA supporting vessels and owners who get fined?

What hacks me off is that it's only a gnats tadger away from the French and Dutch BANNING British boats from their shores. Then the whole issue of E-Borders becomes moot as we can't sail anywhere.

Quite frankly if the RYA doesn't get this sorted out, there's little point in sailing as a hobby and there's little point of the RYA.
 
We are not banned from Belgium and VAT on diesel is hardly an issue to stop such a lovely pastime / sport.
 
How about fitting another fuel tank in a spare cockpit locker? Probably wouldn't even have to connect it up ... give them something to check/dip. Or if you really want to do it properly you really could connect it up and just use it for the occasion!
 
GlennG said:
Probably the most significant event to affect our sport, the effective banning of British boats from Belgium should be calling the RYA to action. I CANNOT BUY ANY OTHER THAN RED DIESEL, therefore it's illegal for me to go to Belgium. From what I see, it's a slow-burner with various articles being published, for example the lead news article in this month's YM (March 2012), but not a lot else.

I really like going to Oostende; a really nice destination. The North Sea Yacht Club is fantastic, as is the famous Robert. And the moule-frite are to die for, even challenging the kebab and chips in Ramsgate.

However, I'm damned if I'm going to be caught up in a game of Fine the Yachtie by a bunch of Belgoid plods. Arguing with them is like wrestling a pig (pun intended). From my experiences with dealing with Belgian bureaucracy, they really do love it.

So now the issue has been forced, we're caught up in the mess that should be sorted out by our governments with the RYA screaming at them to sort it out. To quote from the RYA site: "We continue to lobby the Directorate for Taxation and Customs".

Great, in the meantime it's us the Yachties who are going to be caught in the middle.

So where's the advice that says KEEP OUT OF BELGIUM? What about a forced refuge there -- doesn't this contravene any international shipping laws? What about the RYA supporting vessels and owners who get fined?

What hacks me off is that it's only a gnats tadger away from the French and Dutch BANNING British boats from their shores. Then the whole issue of E-Borders becomes moot as we can't sail anywhere.

Quite frankly if the RYA doesn't get this sorted out, there's little point in sailing as a hobby and there's little point of the RYA.
Click to expand...

mail to the RYA via their site contact

i have been a member since 1974.
i have sailed into Oostende since 1970. i visit 2 to 3 times a year from the East Coast.
it now seems we ( cruising & racing sailors) have a problem with tinted diesel fuel. the response from the RYA is lamentable. i am seriously considering my membership after 38 years of continuous membership, what after all am i paying for.
please view this link & take note over the next few weeks.
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=304240
Kind regards
 
BlowingOldBoots said:
We are not banned from Belgium and VAT on diesel is hardly an issue to stop such a lovely pastime / sport.
Click to expand...

I'll disagree. I like to go over for the May bank holiday with a bunch of other East Coast boats. Now we can't as we risk being fined.

I can't get any other diesel than red diesel from any marina. Therefore unless we steam clean our tanks and fill our boats with white diesel from cans, we'll be fined for entering Belgian waters.

That means I'm banned.
 
SmileyPopcorn.gif
 
Glenn's point is that by their stance on the use of marked fuel (aka red diesel, to us) the Belgians are effectively saying "you can't come here" as British Boats, in many instances, have access to marked fuel only. So it's effectively a ban

The Belgian embassy has confirmed this in a letter in response to an enquiry. The Dutch have said there's no problem. Not sure if the French have opined yet.

I'm worried that the bigger an issue we make of it the more likely the Belgians are to feel the need to make an issue of it.
 
GlennG said:
Quite frankly if the RYA doesn't get this sorted out, there's little point in sailing as a hobby and there's little point of the RYA.
Click to expand...

Eh?

Exactly how the RYA is supposed to "sort it out" I have no idea. And I suspect that I shall, somehow or another, struggle on with enjoying sailing "as a hobby", despite all.
 
Litotes said:
Eh?

Exactly how the RYA is supposed to "sort it out" I have no idea. And I suspect that I shall, somehow or another, struggle on with enjoying sailing "as a hobby", despite all.
Click to expand...

Lobby. Loud. In a way that we can hear them. "We continue to lobby the Directorate for Taxation and Customs" doesn't sound very loud at all.
 
Pinnacle said:
I thought this was about Duty, not VAT? :confused:
Click to expand...

Neither: it's the improper use of marked diesel. Paying duty isn't good enough; the Belgians consider red diesel in leisure vessels as illegal. The British government don't. We're trapped in between.
 
You could also turn it around, as long as the UK does not follow the EU directives you will fall foul of the law on the continent. So it's not Belgium's fault, they just follow and enforce EU law.
 
I might be a bit thick, but how can anyone not be able to buy white diesel? Every filling station sells it.

Many people use jerry cans to refuel. How much fuel does a Contessa hold? Seems to be 10 or 12 gallons. That's only three cans-full, max.

Surely a pragmatic approach is simpler than stressing over something that won't be decided anytime soon.
 
WouldbeSailor said:
You could also turn it around, as long as the UK does not follow the EU directives you will fall foul of the law on the continent. So it's not Belgium's fault, they just follow and enforce EU law.
Click to expand...

Of course the UK government will say they are following EU law too. It is not directly a problem for the RYA as they cannot directly change anything though one would like to hear that they were actively encouraging the UK govrnment to resolve the problem. The problem is that two governments take a different view on this matter and neither seem to be bothered to try and resolve the problem. Perhaps now the Belgiams actualy have a government they may see some value in not reinforcing the traditional Belgiam stereotype.
 
WouldbeSailor said:
You could also turn it around, as long as the UK does not follow the EU directives you will fall foul of the law on the continent. So it's not Belgium's fault, they just follow and enforce EU law.
Click to expand...

The problem is the interpretation of the E.U. directive, the British have a different interpretation to Belgium. Last I heard it was still to be resolved and no final decision had been made.

With that in mind it is premature for Belgium to prejudge the issue -
more on it here from the RYA website

http://www.rya.org.uk/newsevents/ne...sagainsttheUKovercontinueduseofreddiesel.aspx
and here
http://www.rya.org.uk/cruising/current-issues/Pages/RedDieselagameoftwohalves.aspx
 
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