"What's the price of diesel on the 60/40 split" I asked...

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BlueSkyNick

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.... the lady who answered the phone in Yarmouth harbour. I had already established I could get 250litres in Lymington for 90p or 89p, and nobody answered the phone at Cowes, where we were thinking of going for lunch yesterday.

The lady replied that it is 61.7p. "That can't be right" says I. She replied "Well that's what it says on my noticeboard and the system" I politely thanked her and hung up.

[very long rant starts]

Mmmm, we will have to go to Yarmouth then tack up to Cowes into a cold easterly F3, albeit with the tide. My back is still in pain, and I have one willing crew with me. Refuelling in Yarmouth and having lunch in front of the fire in the Kings Head sounds appealing, so I phoned her back to check.

"61.7p cannot be right, please can you confirm" "It is right on the 60/40 split". So I now assume there is a mistake in their pricing but will gladly save myself about £80 if it is there to be saved, so off we set. After a couple of hours gentle sailing from Lymington towards Beaulieu we had back to Yarmouth to execute the plan, going alongside the walk-ashore pontoon.

Told the lady in the office I was the guy who phoned up twice to question the price, and she pointed to her notice "See, it is 61.7p for the 60/40 split!" OK, we would go to the pub before they stop taking food orders. A couple of pints of the Irish black stuff slipped down very nicely, too.

Walking back to the boat bumped into forumite rickp and SWMBO, always a pleasure. Told him we were off to buy some very cheap fuel, and he said he would get 600 litres too, if the price was correct.
Moved to fuel pontoon, lady passes us fuel nozzle and returns to office. It's going into the tank at £1.09, so as I suspected all along there is going to be a problem. Stopped at 232 litres, in my head thats going to be about 140quid. Go into pay - signed a declaration form to say we qualified for 60/40, aforementioned lady goes into the dreaded "system" and comes up with £208 !!! Conversation then goes like this:

Me: "Errmmm, That's not at 61.7p"
Her: "It is on your 60/40 split"
Me: "I deliberately asked you twice to give me the price per litre"
Her: "You asked me the price for a 60/40 split, which is what I gave you"
Me: "But now you are charging me something completely different" (voice raising)
Her: "I am charging you what the computer has worked out at 60/40 split"
Me: "So how does it get to that number?"
Her: "I dont know the computer just works it out. It will show you on your till receipt when it comes out"
Me: "I have come to Yarmouth based on information you gave me, and now you are charging me a different price"
Her: "You asked me for the price for 60/40 split, which is what I gave you"
Me: "I dont care about the split, I just wanted to know the price per litre" (Voice now getting loud enough for everybody in the building to hear me)
"I will pay, then phone up on Monday to speak to the manager"
Her: "I am the manager sir"
Me: "Well I manage a marina too, and I am going to make an issue of this because you are misleading people"

Pick up card and receipts, and return to the boat in a huff, and set off at full revs back to Lymington, and digging out a calculator along the way.

The receipt shows
232l at £1.09 = 252.90
60% proplusion declared duty reduction = -£44.23
Total inc VAT = £208.67.

Thus price per litre is 208.67/232 = 90p. (Editted - sum previously showed 82.5 which was clearly wrong)

However, Maths having been my best subject at school, and used it all through my working life in different ways, I cannot understand the relevance 61.7p - it seems to be a totally arbitrary number !

what's more the people who are giving that out as a price cannot explain where the number comes from either !

In summary, confusion reigns !!

I believe that Trading Standards should ensures that all marinas selling fuel display prices in the same way, and intend to tell them so early on Monday morning.

[/very long rant ends]
 
Last edited:
What's the betting that Trading Standards say "nothing to do with us, try HMRC"

TS seems to be to do with "quality" rather than "standards".

I am grateful for once that HMRC worked out something (given the rules from that "bank manager" in Brussels) that was as near as they could get to Red diesel. However, they walked away from the actual mechanics and left it to the market place.

I agree with you, there should be some consistency, and the minimum should be the base Red price, then the seller can be free to show 60/40 or whatever split seems appropriate to his market area.

Methinks if TS don't want to know, then BMF should offer "guidance" as most resellers are members?? At the same time resellers should be told that they are NOT entitled to sell fuel only at the 60/40 rate - it's the customer's decision, and his liability.

In this case wasn't 61.7ppl the base MGO price?
 
Trading Standards have shown an interest as I know they have made surprise visits to marinas to see how they are displaying their fuel prices. Nothing seems to come from it though - probably in the 'Too Hard' tray on their desks.

Marinas are allowed to sell fuel at anything between 0% and 100% additional duty, as you quite rightly say it is up to the buyer to declare his split usage. There is a requirement on the marina to have a written declaration by way of a signed form, before putting the fuel into the boat.
 
Very odd.

232 litres cost you £208.67 Giving a ppl of 89.9 (Not 82.5ppl!)

60% of this is 139.2litres @ £1.09 = £139.20
the 40% is 92.8 litres @£0.617 = £ 57.25
(assuming she meant 61.7 for rebated red)
Giving a total of £208.97 or £0.90/litre


I can't, at the moment, see why there is a 30p difference, but will say that in road fuel pricing it is standard practice to do the sums to 2 decimals of pennies - but we're working to much tighter margins than marinas. So I suspect that the computer isn't being used to the same degree of accuracy as we have to use.
If I get a chance I'll run it through our garage pricing spreadsheet and see if I can find the 30p!

BTW it aint maths - it's rifmetic! :)
 
duncanmack said:
Very odd.

232 litres cost you £208.67 Giving a ppl of 89.9 (Not 82.5ppl!)
Click to expand...

ooo-errr - that'll be down to finger trouble on the calculator, due to very cold hands and shaking with anger !!!

The penny is now dropping, thanks to your explanation. so instead of asking for the price per litre, one has to ask for the price at 100% duty (109p), and at 0% (61.7p) and work through the sum you have shown - still not clear, and the marina staff can't explain it !

duncanmack said:
If I get a chance I'll run it through our garage pricing spreadsheet and see if I can find the 30p!

BTW it aint maths - it's rifmetic! :)
Click to expand...

I wouldn't worry about running through your spreadsheet, it is bound to be a rounding error.

And anyway, if its not maths, it's maffs !

(or math if you are west of the Atlantic)
 
So if you'd have asked her what would be the total end cost to you, per litre, based on the 60/40 split, would she have that she wouldn't have the faintest idea until you sit down with a calculator after we've filled your tank?
 
Well it should be math's or math' if you are west of the Atlantic. There is no such word as math it is mathematics so both are an abbreviation.
 
Hi Nick,

as the story was being told, I could see what was coming. i.e. the duty free price was what she had on her notice board - I wonder how much extra fuel she has sold with this tactic?

Anyway - had you got the right answer over the telephone, you wouldnt have had a trip to Yarmouth, a nice meal by the fire in the pub, and the pleasure of meeting Rickp and his SWMBO - well worth the £80 not saved :)
 
It's 55ppl at our local canal marina. Fortunately I don't use much so the odd plastic container full isn't a problem - and I haven't the nouse to get in & out of a marina without getting lost anyway.
 
Not a lot of sympathy - you were about to take advantage of what you knew was a mistake "So I now assume there is a mistake in their pricing but will gladly save myself about £80".
 
Bosun Higgs said:
Not a lot of sympathy - you were about to take advantage of what you knew was a mistake "So I now assume there is a mistake in their pricing but will gladly save myself about £80".
Click to expand...

Well, the OP did ask THREE times to confirm the correct price, so given enough opportunity, you would at least expect the VENDOR (i.e someone who sells fuel for a living!) to give a straight forward answer - in this case, the correct bloody price!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Maybe its my way of looking at things but I would have taken the bimbo through the basic mathematics of it to show her she was wrong. Sure she is mathematically illiterate but IMO its still not "nice" to take advantage of someone's stupidity.

But then the OP didnt take advantage did he.
 
Bosun Higgs said:
Maybe its my way of looking at things but I would have taken the bimbo through the basic mathematics of it to show her she was wrong. Sure she is mathematically illiterate but IMO its still not "nice" to take advantage of someone's stupidity.

But then the OP didnt take advantage did he.
Click to expand...

Would agree its annoying that she told you the wrong price to start with, but you kinda guessed that from the start so it was always going to be hit or miss as to whether you would get it at the cheaper price.
But I would leave it there, I wonder if you would have had such a rant if she told you the higher price to start with (that is assuming you had gone there in the first place)
but then when it came to paying she worked it out to be £80 less :)
 
What hacks me off is the acceptance of the 60/40 split. This was a ''figure'' suggested by customs yet it seems to have become near universally accepted as a set rate at which marinas & fuel supplies sell at.
As I recall, we were told that it was up to the individual to claim the split in percentage terms and the individual would have to justify the % split if called upon to do so.

I have come across a number of marinas who will only sell at 60/40. I have requested 80/20 and even 90/10 only to be told they could not do it as there computers were set up to sell at 60/40 only and they could not alter the % rates.

Now I phone ahead before re-fueling to check what rate they will sell at.

For Info: The fuel barge in Falmouth no longer sells to Yachts or pleasure craft.
(used to be able to get a good cash deal from them until bl00dy customs poked there noses in)
 
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