What's the best way to Reef downwind in 30 knots?

[Poignard]

Thanks for your replies,

How about let the geneo flap reef it in a bit. Centre the main downwind put a reef in, No turning into wind stuff. Would this be ok?

That doesn't work (leastways on the bermudan-rigged boats I have owned, it wouldn't) because, as soon as you slack away the main halyard, the leech goes slack and the sail then lays against the shrouds. Trying to drag it down by brute-force or with a downhaul risks damaging the sail.

I have never sailed on a gaff-rigged boat in bad weather but I am told that the main can be lowered downwind. Not that I am suggesting you re-rig your Beneteau 50

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Centre the main downwind put a reef in, No turning into wind stuff. Would this be ok?

It depends. At 30 kts wind, with wind against tide, you might find the risk of a broach has increased. It would not take much for her butt to be pushed off if you got the steering wrong on short, steep waves.

Why are you worried about controlled luffing in a boat that size?

 

[prv]

Erm, shrouds and spreaders?

He ain't got any

I tend to find that pulling my main amidships in any real wind over the stern tends to result in unstoppable weather helm and alarming heel - but mine is a rather mainsail-dominated rig (despite having three other sails, they're each pretty small).

However, I can haul down a reef even with the main out and full. I don't really like to, thinking of the varnish on the gaff rubbing down the shrouds, but so far it doesn't seem to have done any major damage. I might luff for a second or two to pull the clew in without straining anything.

When it’s raining, and cold, the hassle of reefing the main, then to find the wind has dropped off 1 hour latter, and then to shake out the reef is a bit of a pain.

Reefing and un-reefing shouldn't be that much of a hassle. Sounds like your reefing system could do with some attention. Or your boat's just too damn big

Pete

 

[Fantasie 19]

I don't know about boats of that size but if it were me I would (and have) remove the preventer, roll up some genoa then come into a hove-to position.
At this point all goes quiet (relatively) and it should be fairly easy to put a reef in the main.

+1

Other than rolling up the genoa (and I guess that just comes down to the size of said sail), I would do the same...

 

[whiteshythe]

Reefing Downwind.

Hi Simon,

My method for reefing your B50 from a Goosewing in 30kt (apparent)?downwind would be as follows.
Gybe your Genoa so that it is now on the same side and in the lee of your main. Assuming you have a roller reefing headsail, you can now reef it as required, then sheet it in hard.
Now bring the boat up onto a beam reach, but DO NOT sheet in the main.
The main will be flapping and backwinded by the Genoa, but will be easy to lower. Above all the boat will not be overpowered.
Any method that involves going head to wind, even if to heave to, will involve
a wind over the deck in excess of 40kts, which with full sail, I am sure you would rather avoid!

Incidently,we have in mast reefing which allows my wife and I to reef downwind even in 30 kts if necessary. With all lines led back to the cockpit, it involves one of us easing out the outhaul while the other furles in the mainsail using a winch. Coordination between us is important to prevent the sail from getting too full & chafing on the lowers & spreaders.

Yachting Monthly ran an article, about a couple of years ago, written by Tom Cunliffe on the various reefing systems, in-boom, in-mast and conventional.
I seem to remember, that he also found that reefing downwind was only feasible with in-mast.

Finally, our boat is in the Eastern Med. and especially at this time of year, we frequently have strong winds. But as you point out, it all seems more benign when the sun is shining.

Regards,

Steve.

 

[simon10]

It depends. At 30 kts wind, with wind against tide, you might find the risk of a broach has increased. It would not take much for her butt to be pushed off if you got the steering wrong on short, steep waves.

Why are you worried about controlled luffing in a boat that size?

I was just seeing if it was possible, with the advise from more experienced sailors, to reef without turning the boat around.

 

[simon10]

Hi Simon,

My method for reefing your B50 from a Goosewing in 30kt (apparent)?downwind would be as follows.
Gybe your Genoa so that it is now on the same side and in the lee of your main. Assuming you have a roller reefing headsail, you can now reef it as required, then sheet it in hard.
Now bring the boat up onto a beam reach, but DO NOT sheet in the main.
The main will be flapping and backwinded by the Genoa, but will be easy to lower. Above all the boat will not be overpowered.
Any method that involves going head to wind, even if to heave to, will involve
a wind over the deck in excess of 40kts, which with full sail, I am sure you would rather avoid!

Incidently,we have in mast reefing which allows my wife and I to reef downwind even in 30 kts if necessary. With all lines led back to the cockpit, it involves one of us easing out the outhaul while the other furles in the mainsail using a winch. Coordination between us is important to prevent the sail from getting too full & chafing on the lowers & spreaders.

Yachting Monthly ran an article, about a couple of years ago, written by Tom Cunliffe on the various reefing systems, in-boom, in-mast and conventional.
I seem to remember, that he also found that reefing downwind was only feasible with in-mast.

Finally, our boat is in the Eastern Med. and especially at this time of year, we frequently have strong winds. But as you point out, it all seems more benign when the sun is shining.

Regards,

Steve.

Thanks for that, interesting about the backwind bit. Yes maybe, I should have ordered Inmast Furling. I chose Slab Reefing after seeing many jammed in the Med, probably from miss handling. My sail’s are a lot of sail to handle for a husband & wife weekend sailing team.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Thanks for that, interesting about the backwind bit. Yes maybe, I should have ordered Inmast Furling. I chose Slab Reefing after seeing many jammed in the Med, probably from miss handling. My sail’s are a lot of sail to handle for a husband & wife weekend sailing team.

So the lesson really is don't hang on to the canvass too long and I am not trying to be clever, with a 50 foot boat and that amount of sail you don't need to.

 

[KellysEye]

I would turn slightly off wind so you don't gybe and take the pole down then put a reef in the genoa. Then turn further off wind easing the genoa (but don't let it slat) and keep turning slowly until the main slats then reef it. I wouldn't try to hold the boat bows slightly off the wind to reef it's an extremely difficult point of sail to hold, particularly in strong winds and big seas. In fact, from experience, I would say it's impossible mainly because as you lower the sail the sail area changes and you will bear away fast under the genoa. Also I'm very surprised you have only one reef in the mainsail, a fifty foot boat should have three reefs, the third giving the size of sail of a storm trysail appropriate for your boat.

 

[prv]

Also I'm very surprised you have only one reef in the mainsail

I didn't notice him saying that.

Pete

 

[westernman]

So the lesson really is don't hang on to the canvass too long and I am not trying to be clever, with a 50 foot boat and that amount of sail you don't need to.

But it is always possible to be surprised in the Med. Winds can come up very quickly and take one by surprise. Some areas a particularly prone to this e.g. around Cerbere.

So, in my case (52ft LOD, 34 ton light ship), I sheet in the main so that it is well off the shrouds - to may be about 45 degrees to the center line while keeping the same heading. Sheet in jib and stay sail hard. Now head up into the wind, keeping the way on - first to a reach (which if you are over canvassed will put the deck under water), but keep heading up and tack. On a light AWB the danger might be will be that you broach when you get to the beam reach but don't have enough way to carry through the tack and that the waves stop you.

Keep the jib and stay sail sheeted where they are. Once well through the tack start putting the helm down to head up into the wind. You will find a stable point where the boat won't be healing too much, won't be going anywhere very quickly, with the main only drawing a little bit with the foresails aback. This is hove to - but with the main out further than normal - so you will be much further off the wind than normal and making more way downwind than if you were properly hove to. However, things will have calmed down a lot and you can take your time with the rest.

If you can't get through the tack, then winch the foresails aback on the other side. (Hard work - so best to try to get through the tack).

If the deck is not under water, you can sheet the main in a bit more which will put you at a better angle to the waves.

Top up the boom on the windward side then put in the slab reef in the usual fashion. Once the tack and clew are fixed for the reef, I will sheet the main right in before tying in the reef points.

 

[lenseman]

I have been caught a couple of times in strong winds with to much canvas up. I know I should have reefed earlier, but I have left to late. . . . .
I was sailing Goosewinged with a preventer on, in the south coast of England, with full canvas up, in 20 knots of wind on a 10 hour passage. After a few of hours in, it has increased to 30 knots, . . . . .

Hello Simon and welcome to the forums.

Firstly you say this all happened on a 10 hour passage. Did you heed the wx before setting out. If so, what was the outlook and did you carefully study the surface wind (isobar chart) before you set off?

On a 10 hour passage, with log-keeping every hour, did you note the falling barometer? This would have given you a strong wind warning as the change in surface pressure would have certainly been very noticeable and very visible. Did you indeed look at the barometer whilst on passage (many don't)?

In a situation that you describe, you have to take the wind out of the sails. You have to power them down and only you, on your boat at the time, can know the correct method under the circumstances and rounding up is probably the best way, with your washboards fully closed up. With a strong sea running picking the moment when you helm over (or not) is what makes a good skipper and every time it can be different.

We all get it wrong on occasion but living to recount the tale with all your crew and boat is the most important bit.

 

[Lakesailor]

Can't you get your crew to do it?

 

[Quandary]

Too many trying to give serious answers to what is really a daft question ?????

 

[Bobc]

I've got the same system on a similar size boat.

The short answer is that you can reef offwind with no problem. Just make sure that the main is off the spreaders to avoid any problems there (come up a bit, onto a reach, this will ease the load in the sail too).

If you ease the halyard, the main will ease down on it's own even with pressure in. You might have to to help it along a bit by light winching of the reefing line (don't over-doo it though, or you'll knacker the in-boom system).

 

[simon10]

Too many trying to give serious answers to what is really a daft question ?????

Very Smug

 

[E39mad]

If you ease the halyard, the main will ease down on it's own even with pressure in. You might have to to help it along a bit by light winching of the reefing line (don't over-doo it though, or you'll knacker the in-boom system).

There is no mention of an in boom system that I have read - so using the reefing line to assist is possible - ensure you ease the kicker first though before tightening the main halyard once the reef is tightly in.

Ball bearing cars and the weight of a large sail should bring the main down fairly easily once depowered without having to go head to wind shorthanded presuming that you have a stack pack style system.

 

[maxcampbell]

gaffer

get yourself a gaffer - take in a reef on any point of sail

 

[xyachtdave]

Too many trying to give serious answers to what is really a daft question ?????

Quite... Raise the spinnaker, increase boat speed by 50% and you have now killed the apparent wind and of course the need to reef the main.

 

[Strathglass]

The best way is to heave too. I have found that this can be done in most sailing craft. Even in quite high wind strengths.

From a running goosewinged position, sheet your genoa in very hard on the side it is already at and leave the main to take care of itself. Then luff the boat up towards windward but stop when the boat is just about 25 ish degrees above broadside to the wind.

You end up with the genoa sheeted hard on the windward side of the boat and the main swinging free on the leward side.

It should then be possible to find a helm position where the main is sheltered behind the jib and will be streaming downwind from the mast and the craft will sit virtually stationary in the water.

Once you have found this point on your boat it is then possible to reef the main down to a size compatable with the wind strength.

With different craft there are some variations in techniques required to safely set up in the heave-to position.

Many years ago I used to heave-too in an enterprise dinghy in fairly heavy weather (F5-6)
I have gybed a 32 ft Elizabethan from a goosewinged dead run straight into a heave-too position in 30 knots of wind (That was when approaching Lochend at the north end of Loch Ness at 8-9 knots)

I can set my own (33ft fin keel) boat to sit quite comfortably when heaved-too with virtually no foreward movement.

You may feel a bit cautious at turning your boat broadside to a 30 knots wind. but once you know how you want to set it up and have tried it a few times it becomes almost second nature.
Once you have found the best position for the rudder you can even lash the helm.

You could of course switch your engine on and motor the boat round into the wind.

Just another option

Iain