What's going on at Discovery yachts?

[Stork_III]

Kieth John Watson -Director - resigned from many Discovery group companies 30 Apr 2019 holds a charge over All land, intellectual property, assets, goodwill, secured .

A further recent charge 4 Dec 2019 held by Binti Holding Gmbh .

DISCOVERY YACHTS GROUP LTD - Overview (free company information from Companies House)

 

[JumbleDuck]

A cursory look over at yachtworlds site at comparable boats - HR, Najad etc - begs the question, why would you take on such monstrous levels of depreciation buying new especially given the total ballache this has become for all parties?

For the same reason you buy a Rolex instead of a perfectly serviceable Casio at around 0.2% of the price ... to show you can.

 

[E39mad]

I too have been thinking about secondhand S38

I suspect RiCMac issues are with the S110 as he talks of 100 boats built, and I don’t think there were anything like that number of S38s

Interesting the Southerly Owners Association has a thread running about water coming in through the keel box in rough weather on a newly bought secondhand S110

The knowledgeable people on the owners site say that the issue has been reported before but Southerly management were unable to replicate the issue in tests ...perhaps they would say that!

I suppose we are guessing about the model - the 110 was designed and many built well before the quoted ISO directive mentioned. I read it as that there are 100's of Southerly sailing since this directive came out so took it as all of them but again could be wrong.

 

[Blue Sunray]

For the same reason you buy a Rolex instead of a perfectly serviceable Casio at around 0.2% of the price ... to show you can.

Hardly a fair comparison. the Casio has considerably more functionality than the Rolex, is more reliable and much more accurate.

 

[Daydream believer]

Hardly a fair comparison. the Casio has considerably more functionality than the Rolex, is more reliable and much more accurate.

But if I am going to a function, or important business meet, I always wear my Rolex-- Probably explains why I always turn up late though

 

[pvb]

I do not understand who actually is the beneficial owner of Discovery and if this represents a line in the sand for them I hope so.

The largest shareholder of Discovery Yachts Group Ltd is Binti Holding GmbH, controlled by Werner Schnaebele. On 15 November 2019 Binti Holding filed a floating charge against all of the Group's assets.

 

[Bathdave]

As I understand it Sean Langton was the MD and owned more than 75%

As part of the consequences of this litigation reaching court he seems to have left and sold his shares to Binti who have also refinanced the company , and taken the floating charge as part of this refinancing

Boating Business | Sean leaves Discovery

Interestingly the records at Companies House don’t yet fully reflect this development

 

[pvb]

As I understand it Sean Langton was the MD and owned more than 75%

As part of the consequences of this litigation reaching court he seems to have left and sold his shares to Binti who have also refinanced the company , and taken the floating charge as part of this refinancing

Boating Business | Sean leaves Discovery

Interestingly the records at Companies House don’t yet fully reflect this development

Sean Langdon ceased to be the "person with significant control" way back in May 2018, when Binti Holding acquired shares.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

..... Binti Holding filed a floating charge against all of the Group's assets. .....

I looked up 'floating charge', so excuse my naivety around it. Could this be an indicator of a problem because Binti are taking measures to protecting, or limit their loss? Or is it a precursor to Binti taking ownership through crystallisation and selling on into a new company?

How a Floating Charge Allows Companies to Obtain Financing

Crystallization is the process by which a floating charge converts into a fixed charge. If a company fails to repay the loan or goes enters liquidation, the floating charge becomes crystallized or frozen into a fixed charge. With a fixed charge, the assets become fixed by the lender so the company cannot use the assets or sell them.

 

[Just_sayin']

Shame, I always fancied a Southerly

I'd think twice.

Actually, I wouldn't

Southerly 115 - heads up...

Dodgy Decks - Part 2

 

[doug748]

Dodgy Decks - Part 2

On a bit of a tangent but Javelin is an experienced tradesman and one quote from that thread did stick in my mind:

"The Rustler being one of a very few modern cruising boats that, in my eyes, are properly built.....,"
.
.

 

[E39mad]

I'd think twice.

Actually, I wouldn't

Southerly 115 - heads up...

Dodgy Decks - Part 2

So you wouldn't buy one because an 18 year old boat (the 115) had some rot, the cause of which we do not know and a boat that is over 30 years old (135) had a dodgy none manufacturer repair. These things could happen to any similar age boat.

 

[guardian]

Seems this sort of thing isn't limited to yacht builders:

The 'fun' of buying a McLaren supercar.

 

[Just_sayin']

So you wouldn't buy one because an 18 year old boat (the 115) had some rot, the cause of which we do not know and a boat that is over 30 years old (135) had a dodgy none manufacturer repair. These things could happen to any similar age boat.

No I wouldn't as the comment I was referring to wasn't age specific merely a marque with questionable build quality.

Every yacht I have owned has had shrouds that as a principal mount onto some sort of plinth on the deck which keeps any possible rain leakage to a minimum, then to a substantial rod arrangement inside the boat mounted to its own knee which has always been a substantial piece of timber.

Did you miss the aluminium backing plate and machine screws with no shoulders, in other words an effective file??



Also:

It is true that Southerly's of a certain age do suffer from water ingress through deck fittings, chain plates and such resulting in sodden balsa cores and damp issues with knees and bulkheads.

 

[XDC]

Seems this sort of thing isn't limited to yacht builders:

The 'fun' of buying a McLaren supercar.

Hah, at 2m09 John's Porche is back AT Porche so it's not just McLaren

 

[Daydream believer]

No I wouldn't as the comment I was referring to wasn't age specific merely a marque with questionable build quality.

Every yacht I have owned has had shrouds that as a principal mount onto some sort of plinth on the deck which keeps any possible rain leakage to a minimum, then to a substantial rod arrangement inside the boat mounted to its own knee which has always been a substantial piece of timber.

Did you miss the aluminium backing plate and machine screws with no shoulders, in other words an effective file??

View attachment 82773

Also:

Would not the designer have put the spec for that part in with his design? It is, after all, a structural component. The builder should, one might assume ( & we all know what assumption is) that the builder would follow the design in regards to structure. I am sure that I would have. ( or at least questioned it if wishing to change)

 

[Frogmogman]

I know that everything is possible in retrospect, but if I was in the shoes of the owner of this vessel, I would have appointed my own project manager / surveyor to oversee the construction. Especially as the owner appears to be a relative 'newbie'.
Not necessarily being in attendance every day, but maybe visiting the yard once a week, and issuing a progress report with photos . The cost of having this extra assurance would be slight in comparison to the cost of the vessel.
The surveyor would also make sure that the boat doesn't leave the yard until all systems are tested to the mutual satisfaction of all concerned.

Yet folk seem to be reluctant to do this

Couldn't agree more with this. I remember being very surprised in the Polina Star saga that a £5 million yacht appeared to have been built without oversight from an independent surveyor.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Couldn't agree more with this. I remember being very surprised in the Polina Star saga that a £5 million yacht appeared to have been built without oversight from an independent surveyor.

Whereas I am in turn mildly surprised that anybody would spend £1.5 - £5m with a company which they couldn't trust to do the job right.

 

[Daydream believer]

Whereas I am in turn mildly surprised that anybody would spend £1.5 - £5m with a company which they couldn't trust to do the job right.

Well they would not, would they. I am sure that if the OP had not trusted the builder in the first place they would have walked away. It is OK talking about project managers etc. but if you are confident that the builder can do the job, one would not do that. It is not that £1m is really such a large sum in terms of "posh yachts". Then one has to decide if they trust the project manager. So should they then have someone to manage the project manager?

 

[Bajansailor]

Couldn't agree more with this. I remember being very surprised in the Polina Star saga that a £5 million yacht appeared to have been built without oversight from an independent surveyor.

Re Polina Star, I just saw on Marinetraffic a vessel called 'Champagne Hippy' approaching Barbados, coming up from Mustique in the Grenadines.
Scrolling through her photos, I see that she appears to be poor Polina Star resurrected.
https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ai.../mmsi:235104395/imo:0/vessel:CHAMPAGNE HIPPY/