What's considered to be too many engine hours?

Corky

Corky

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What\'s considered to be too many engine hours?

I've been looking at a few Sealine 310s and Fairline Targas recently of around 1995 vintage and some seem to have very high engine hours e.g. 1400hrs. The engines are the likes of D3's and KAD32's and it's got me wondering if this is considered excessive. I'm only likely to put 80-100 hrs a year on them myself and the boats themselves are at a fair price. What do you guys think? Too high or do these engines 'go on forever'? (I'd obviously check their service records)
 
Re: What\'s considered to be too many engine hours?

D3's in 1995??? Don't think so.

As to KAD32's, it's not so much about hours, more about condition and service history, although very high hours does mean you should be able to beat the price down even more. Also, very high hours means that you should look at everything else in the boat as well: seats, upholstery, etc. If all the boxes are ticked, then it's not a big problem.

Check the outdrives carefully: these will cost you big bucks long before the engines do, if my experience is anything to go by.

dv.
 
Re: What\'s considered to be too many engine hours?

Okay, that's MERCRUISER D3.0L which I know nothing about.

Completely different to the Volvo Penta D3... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

dv.
 
Re: What\'s considered to be too many engine hours?

That's a lot of hours, should be room for price talks. Think these engines likes to have their tappets checked/adjusted. Make sure this has been done (A few times with that many hours)

As said above, service history, and evidence of it is the most important factor here

Also remember the out-drive, if it's a DP will have a cone clutch which if i'm right does wear down and could need replacement
Sorry I can't offer any 'real' advise
 
Re: What\'s considered to be too many engine hours?

When bidding,try to imagine the worst mechanical problem likely to rear its head and deduct that from the offer price.If grief happens then you have some funds to sort ,if all sunshine and smiles then bit of spare cash towards heaps of other things.
Loads of boats around and buyers will have advantage over any seller unfortunate enough to be trying to unload a floating money pit at the moment.
 
Re: What\'s considered to be too many engine hours?

Hours mean nothing. I bought a boat with very low hours and it turned out to be a nightmare due to lack of use. What is more important on a boat of this age is evidenced that the boat has been regularly and properly serviced, that the owner clearly takes some care of the craft and look at recent service bills for important work done (if it had a full service in 1997 its great and all but not really relevant).

I dont think the hours are high, and neither do you. you're just thinking about it the wrong way. look at what you type:

[ QUOTE ]
I'm only likely to put 80-100 hrs a year on them myself

[/ QUOTE ]

If you had owned this boat from new, then your 100 only hours a year would amount to






1300-1400 hours!!!!!!!!!!

think of it another way, if you were buying a ten year old car that had done 50,000 miles youd think that was low mileage right? Well, the average speed over a cars life in the uk is around 30mph, and probably less for low mileage cars. So your excellent low mileage car has been running for 1650 hours - in ten years. And we worry about a diesel doing 1400 hours in 14 years.

As for the price, you might be able to knock em down, but only becasue of the misguided beleif that low hours = better boat. Quite often low hours = negleted boat = world of trouble.

As I said, been there, done it, wont again.
 
Re: What\'s considered to be too many engine hours?

Ah yes but I would probably feel that my engine would be very worn by then.
What is the average expected hours p.a. The motor trade has its expectations of 12k miles so what's the nautical equivalent? Is my 80-100hrs typical - I dunno?
It's good that everyone wants to contribute - thanks for everyone's thoughts.
 
Re: What\'s considered to be too many engine hours?

Quite often low hours = neglected boat = world of trouble

Agree completely.Owners who actually enjoy using their boats to the full tend to worry about keeping them fettled,because the last thing they want is not to be out on the water as a result of stuff not working.
Suspect many low hours boats are the result of buying on a whim and then discarded.
TCM,a while ago sagely stated,the first year it gets used(a bit),the second it just sits there and by the third its up for sale.
It may not have moved for years and then along comes a enthusiastic buyer who likes the look of those low hours.Once went to look a boat with 5000 hours on the clocks,sounded like a pair of sewing machines on start up.(Well Volvo sewing machines anyway)
 
Re: What\'s considered to be too many engine hours?

Let me sum it up. the problem with low hours is the big Volvo manual says - 'Engine to be serviced and the following changed every 100 hours or anually'.

Sadly, as with most things including cars, peopleread what they want to read and many who dont ise the boat choose to read the 100 hours requirement and ignor the rest.

Take one of my boats, a 2001 Bavaria bought in 2006 with KAD43's that had done 190 hours. great, low hours, must be a minter. However, I reckon they had had one service, maybe two in 5 years. Because the guy hardly used it, he hardly serviced it two.

The result, a bill for nearly £3,000 and some real headaches.

Ok, so this might be an isolated example (but its not all that rare sadly) but so long as the boat is well looked after I would be happy with an average use of 200 hours a year. Then you know a VP engineer has had a look every 6 months.

how great is that.
 
Re: What\'s considered to be too many engine hours?

I don't understand all this pessimism.
My 20 year old Mercedes engine (as fitted to lorries) has done 5,000 hours and if fitted in a lorry would have averaged about 30mph giving 150,000 miles which is small beer. I fully expect the trusty OM314 to carry on for much longer as I feed it oil and water as required.
 
Re: What\'s considered to be too many engine hours?

All boats need mending, end of story. It dont matter whether six months old or twenty years, things break. Neverhad a serious engine problem though. 1700 hours now.
 
Re: What\'s considered to be too many engine hours?

This subject pops up every now and then and as ever I will jump on my soap box /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Hours mean absolutley nothing on most boats and sellers will often exploit the natural tendency to think like buying a car i.e. low miles (hours) is good. Not so!!!

As others have said condition and maintenance are key - properly maintaned diesels will go on for thousands of hours - much more than most leisure boaters will ever put on them.

Difficulty is that comprehensive service histores are not always available but a sound examination and trial combined with oil analysis ccan help give some peace of mind.

Sermon over... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
Re: What\'s considered to be too many engine hours?

but hours do mean something on price. Rightly or wrongly, most people prefer a low engine hour to a high engine hour. OK, maybe you could add to that "all other things being equal".
Of course all other things being equal is almost impossible, but otherwise I d say the above statement holds true.
Everyone wants to be happy and have some peace of mind when buying a boat. If the engine hours is giving some nervousness, I d suggest investing in an engine inspection by someone suitable. It might then still go wrong, but at least you have checked, and as HLB says, boats just do go wrong anyway .
 
Re: What\'s considered to be too many engine hours?

Yes, just as irrational as one lady driver never raced or rallied!

Low hours usually means lack of use which might mean low wear on other parts but could just as easily mean neglect. Engines rarely wear out - they fail through neglect and lack of use.

When you think about it what a waste of all that fine engineering to sit rotting in a boat before becoming an anchor. Almost as big a waste of engineering talent (never mind the resources to produce it) as a Chelsea Tractor!
 
Re: What\'s considered to be too many engine hours?

I agree that lack of use/poor preservation is probably the biggest problem. Although I don't know these engines I've worked on a lot of different industrial engines and these typically require ppm's at 9000hours which would involve bearing inspections, piston ring change etc. Usually the cylinder liners would need to be changed about every 5 years - 45,000hours

If maintenance simply refers to filter and oil change that would seem fair to be done every 100hrs or annually but major stuff should last for years.
 
Re: What\'s considered to be too many engine hours?

[ QUOTE ]
When bidding,try to imagine the worst mechanical problem likely to rear its head and deduct that from the offer price.If grief happens then you have some funds to sort ,if all sunshine and smiles then bit of spare cash towards heaps of other things.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why stop there? Why not consider the worst possible thing that can happen to the whole boat (total and uninsured loss) and deduct that? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Seriously, I'd be mightily unimpressed if someone was buying a boat from me and said that theoretically it might need two new engines one day, and tried to knock me the cost of that.

Negotiate on known issues by all means, but speculating on what could go wrong in the future with no evidence to suggest it will and trying to knock that off the price is likely to lead to you being shown the door in no short order.
 
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