What's A Reasonable Offer?

We looked at a Seaward 25, but not so new as this one. I felt that it was rather like driving a Landrover, windscreen in front of you, and rear window behind your head. I think that they are missing a trick not to bring out an extended wheelhouse version. We finished up buying an Aquastar Pacesetter 27, which has a large wheelhouse with the galley and seating.
Seaward are trading again, and I would disagree about the popularity of displacement and semi displacement boats. I have got back into boating after 20 years and notice far fewer 'gin palaces' flying about flat out on the plane, and more motor boats chugging about at displacement speeds or a knot or two over. Last time I had a boat I used to fill up at the fuel barge on the Itchen for 50p a gallon, its a bit different now!
 
l'escargot said:
Buyers as well as sellers?
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Very important point with a boat like this. Very few around, essentially single seller (that is they seem all to be sold through the same channel) no direct alternative. The seller will determine the price he accepts and the broker would not suggest an asking price that is significantly higher than the price he has achieved for other similar boats he has sold recently.

So, probably the seller will not be receptive to a low offer. It is often a mistake to think that every seller is desperate to sell their boats at any price and many prefer to keep them if the offer is not high enough.
 
Tranona said:
The seller will determine the price he accepts and the broker would not suggest an asking price that is significantly higher than the price he has achieved for other similar boats he has sold recently.
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A broker has absolutely no control of the prices of his or her boats. Price is set by the owner.

This is why you end up scratching your head as the broker assures you the boat is well priced with a straight face when you know you can buy a much cheaper stock boat off a dealer who actually owns their stock or a more realistic owner (who may be selling directly and avoiding the circa 10% brokers commission). You know it's too expensive, he knows it's too expensive (unless you're just dealing with one of the lackeys) but they are paid by the vendor and only earn if they sell.

It still comes down to not having a transparent market as you do with cars or even property. In both these cases reductions of 30% are virtually unheard of. With boats it seems to be the norm.

Incidentally no knowledge of the specific boat being discussed, just general observations.

Henry :)
 
bumpy_the_dog said:
Most of my sailing has been in raggies, and ex raggies tend to be drawn to different mobos, Hardy or Seaward are often top of their list and I'm no different.

I live a ten minute walk from Lymington Haven and when you're so close to the water it's often more about daysailing than overnighting, plus I also wanted something that can seat six at a table in the cockpit for when friends come out. Therefore I'm looking for the space balance to be more towards the cockpit than the interior.
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I understand your interest in the Seaward 25. Your statement about ex-raggies is SO true as I've mentioned before. :)
You'll be very pleased to cruise at 10-12 knots in a straight line and be able to pop over to Yarmouth for lunch or Newtown Creek for the evening etc.

Living so close to Lymington will also mean your weekend accommodation is less important than for many of us that travel over 50 miles to our boats. There's a guy in Shamrock Quay that lives 80 miles from Aberdeen! :nonchalance:

Personally, I made the full transition from sailing to mobos' and if you do later, your first choice will change. (bit by bit) The point I'm making here that you will almost certainly only keep the Seaward25 for 2 years max and this should be factored in. A Botnia 25, for example is such a different style of boat that you would probably hate the thought of owning one at the moment.

It will probably take you three attempts to get the boat you'll be happy with as with most of us.:ambivalence:

I have to agree with replies further up, it's really only worth what you are prepared to pay. This one on offer looks like a goody. If you buy it and look after it, it still will be and £70k openers sounds fair and reasonable to me.:encouragement:

Good luck.

RR
 
Barleycorn said:
Last time I had a boat I used to fill up at the fuel barge on the Itchen for 50p a gallon, its a bit different now!
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Not Mr Diesel by any chance? Whatever happened to them? Lovely couple. When I first started using him, he was selling diesel at 15p/litre or thereabouts and we thought nothing of blatting across to Guernsey and back for a weekend because the fuel cost was almost incidental. Nowadays of course you worry about the fuel cost of getting to the next bay
 
Just an worth a mention: the round bilged Nelson designs are notorious for rolling in a beam sea, and trying to broach in a following sea......

They are basically sailing boat type hulls, without the ballast of a keel to keep them steady! (sort of)

While the modern replacement the Botnia Targa has flat planing sections with a very fine bow entry, which help to stabilise the boat in all sea conditions. The police, harbour masters, customs now all have Botnias, not Nelsons.
 
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henryf said:
A broker has absolutely no control of the prices of his or her boats. Price is set by the owner.
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While the owner does indeed have control of the selling price, perhaps you should read the context of this particular question. The problem for the OP is that all the boats on the market that are comparable are being sold by one broker, so it is really difficult to get any idea of the transaction prices other than transactions handled by this broker. In this sort of situation the broker has a great deal of influence on setting the asking price as he knows what others have sold for. Obviously the seller has the right to sell at a lower price, but the broker in this situation is unlikely to suggest a price way above what he knows the boats sell for.
 
Tranona said:
but the broker in this situation is unlikely to suggest a price way above what he knows the boats sell for.
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I disagree for 2 reasons. Firstly the broker is or was the manufacturer and therefore has a vested interest in giving the appearance that his boats maintain their value on the used market and second, because he controls the used market for these boats, he can realistically hope that some mug will come along and pay more than other buyers for the same boat and therefore he has every reason to price the boats high. The only way that the OP can hope not to be that mug is to make a low ball offer and then move up in small steps until he finds the true selling price of these boats
 
Deleted User said:
I disagree for 2 reasons. Firstly the broker is or was the manufacturer and therefore has a vested interest in giving the appearance that his boats maintain their value on the used market and second, because he controls the used market for these boats, he can realistically hope that some mug will come along and pay more than other buyers for the same boat and therefore he has every reason to price the boats high. The only way that the OP can hope not to be that mug is to make a low ball offer and then move up in small steps until he finds the true selling price of these boats
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+1

The only similar situation I can think of is caterham super 7 cars, the sticker price on their second hand cars is fixed, no discounts or negotiation; there's no way I could operate under those restrictive conditions!:ambivalence:
 
rustybarge said:
+1

The only similar situation I can think of is caterham super 7 cars, the sticker price on their second hand cars is fixed, no discounts or negotiation; there's no way I could operate under those restrictive conditions!:ambivalence:
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Oh dear, there's a pattern developing, many years ago I used to drive one of those!
 
Deleted User said:
I disagree for 2 reasons. Firstly the broker is or was the manufacturer and therefore has a vested interest in giving the appearance that his boats maintain their value on the used market and second, because he controls the used market for these boats, he can realistically hope that some mug will come along and pay more than other buyers for the same boat and therefore he has every reason to price the boats high. The only way that the OP can hope not to be that mug is to make a low ball offer and then move up in small steps until he finds the true selling price of these boats
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Or find another boat - he is still the buyer ! So it's a Seaward, it could be a Hardy, or a Corvette (OK a bit bigger), but for the money being asked you are only £20k away from a late 1990's Corvette 320, and the Seaward 25 won't come anywhere close. Seller's markets in boating are a complete myth.
 
The problem is a Corvette is designed for space and to look like a trawler, slams in any sort of sea whereas a Seaward will go anywhere and is built like the proverbial sh**house!! :encouragement:
 
jimmy_the_builder said:
If you want a (very rough) rule of thumb, people often talk about year 1 depreciation as being the vat, and then subsequent years being 10% pa. So if you applied this crude rule to your five year old example, the residual would be 0.87 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 = 57%. So your 64% isn't miles out, on that basis.
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This may be a better guide than you think. Many years ago, I researched the price of sport cruisers i.e. regressed actual price using year, features, etc across 100s of samples. Result was that, between something like 3 and 10 years, depreciation was almost exactly 10% (of remaining value) per year. Most extras depreciated a lot faster, though - can't remember the exact figure. Of course, it remains a rough guide as you say, reality is what people are willing to pay & accept which in turn depends on both parties' views and preferences.
 
jimg said:
How many do you need!! ;)
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Too old to rough it now, sorry. Haven't got a cat but my late Mother In Law's bloody Papillon serves as something to swing for cabin measurement purposes (truth is she is my MiL come back to haunt me , but thats another thread somewhere !). So a proper bed, en suite, hot and cold, and plenty of deck space too. Got all that with my Turbo 36, plus the second loo, but I still hanker for the Corvette. My ideal boat is a Nordhavn around 50-60', and that would handle the F9 across the Bay, but it ain't gonna happen, and anyway SWMBO has to be persuaded for anything much above a F4 now.

OK so the Corvette won't cross the Bay of Biscay in a Force 9, but that's what P&O Cruise ships exist for !
 
Just to finish the story. I phoned to book a visit, but because of the IOW Festival I was advised to leave it for a week. This morning I had a call from Seaward to say sorry, but don't bother coming as she's just been sold at full asking. Guess for some boats it's still a seller's market!
 
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