What would you do?

[Skylark]

Well I went ahead and offered, and he has not declined my offer but has confirmed he would like me to pay for it

in response to another helpful comment, he is many times more wealthy than me..

I think I shall just have to politely decline to crew for him again ...

Don’t give him money, far better to give him a replacement VHF radio.

Search for a rechargeable Baofeng UV-5R III. It will cost about £20. Chinese, of course, but high quality feel and incredible value for money.

They need to be programmed with software downloaded from the interweb. This will also need the dedicated patch lead. I can help you with both, if needed.

My view of being a skipper/owner is that “if you’re not prepared to lose it, break it or bleed, you shouldn’t be sailing”

 

[lw395]

Chaotic preparations are the fault of the skipper, so it boils down to him/her.. you just used your initiative to help alleviate the situation. The skipper pays in this case. They will hopefully learn to pay more attention to getting organised next time!
Although it might be worth the price of a radio to avoid conflict etc..that's your call.

Not necessarily.
A lot of stuff is often delegated to one or more of the crew.
It might have been one of the crew late who made the start a bit of a panic.
Some owners just steer and pay the bills, the tactician calls the shots and the crew organise the deck work among themselves.

I think the OP took a silly risk with the radio. He should accept that he decided to rely on the clip holding it to his LJ.
It's not a huge price to pay to take part in racing. If the game's too rich, there are cheaper forms of sailing but TBH the price of a radio is rather less than what I pay up to race my second boat, which is a cheap old dinghy.

 

[Iain C]

Not necessarily.
A lot of stuff is often delegated to one or more of the crew.
It might have been one of the crew late who made the start a bit of a panic.
Some owners just steer and pay the bills, the tactician calls the shots and the crew organise the deck work among themselves.

I think the OP took a silly risk with the radio. He should accept that he decided to rely on the clip holding it to his LJ.
It's not a huge price to pay to take part in racing. If the game's too rich, there are cheaper forms of sailing but TBH the price of a radio is rather less than what I pay up to race my second boat, which is a cheap old dinghy.

I agree. And a busy start line is not relevant tbh. It's racing after all.

If the OP asked to use it, I think he's got a better "case". If the OP contributes even a small amount to the running of the boat, or gets involved in antifouling etc then he would be right to say that past and future contributions of money and/or time are designed to cover exactly this kind of thing.

I've got two handhelds on my boat, one I would be upset about if it got dropped, the other one I would not care less about. What kind of radio was it OP?

I'd also say you can "walk", but beware the bar talk that singles you out as "that" crew who took a radio, dropped it, and would not replace it and jumped ship. If you do replace it, just learn from the mistake and move on and stay with your current crew.

Whilst it's true that if people want to race their boats, they need crew, it's also true that if the average Joe wants to go sailing he either has to buy a boat, or pay for a Sunsail trip or similar. If you are not contributing and sailing for free, if you mess up and incur costs of fairly modest value, "you bend it you mend it" should apply. If we are talking big damage then clearly that's what insurance is for, but kit dropped needlessly over the side needs replacing IMHO, it is not fair to expect the skipper to claim on insurance and affect future premiums over the modest cost of a radio whose loss was not his fault.

 

[Bathdave]

I agree. And a busy start line is not relevant tbh. It's racing after all.

If the OP asked to use it, I think he's got a better "case". If the OP contributes even a small amount to the running of the boat, or gets involved in antifouling etc then he would be right to say that past and future contributions of money and/or time are designed to cover exactly this kind of thing.

I've got two handhelds on my boat, one I would be upset about if it got dropped, the other one I would not care less about. What kind of radio was it OP?

I'd also say you can "walk", but beware the bar talk that singles you out as "that" crew who took a radio, dropped it, and would not replace it and jumped ship. If you do replace it, just learn from the mistake and move on and stay with your current crew.

Whilst it's true that if people want to race their boats, they need crew, it's also true that if the average Joe wants to go sailing he either has to buy a boat, or pay for a Sunsail trip or similar. If you are not contributing and sailing for free, if you mess up and incur costs of fairly modest value, "you bend it you mend it" should apply. If we are talking big damage then clearly that's what insurance is for, but kit dropped needlessly over the side needs replacing IMHO, it is not fair to expect the skipper to claim on insurance and affect future premiums over the modest cost of a radio whose loss was not his fault.

I’ve already set out what I propose to do and why ..the comments on here have been (generally) helpful and informative.

But just for your information, (and I only add these comments because of your approach) I do have my own boat, which happens to be a bit bigger and also probably more expensive (at least to buy if not to keep specced up for racing ...he’s certainly spent a lot more than I have on his boat in the last three years than I have!)

My wife and cruise our boat with the costs that entails...I certainly don’t race on the other one to get cheap/free sailing

Yes I enjoy the racing, it provides a nice contrast to my own cruising ...I haven’t done much on the other boat over the last 18 months as the races often clash with my own cruising.

If someone had an accident and dropped or broke a piece of kit on my boat, I would see it as part of the cost of ownership unless they were being a complete idiot or breaching directions

 

[dom]

Some owners just steer and pay the bills, the tactician calls the shots and the................

And some owners just pay the bills

 

[capnsensible]

I would replace it.

 

[Iain C]

I’ve already set out what I propose to do and why ..the comments on here have been (generally) helpful and informative.

But just for your information, (and I only add these comments because of your approach) I do have my own boat, which happens to be a bit bigger and also probably more expensive (at least to buy if not to keep specced up for racing ...he’s certainly spent a lot more than I have on his boat in the last three years than I have!)

My wife and cruise our boat with the costs that entails...I certainly don’t race on the other one to get cheap/free sailing

Yes I enjoy the racing, it provides a nice contrast to my own cruising ...I haven’t done much on the other boat over the last 18 months as the races often clash with my own cruising.

If someone had an accident and dropped or broke a piece of kit on my boat, I would see it as part of the cost of ownership unless they were being a complete idiot or breaching directions

It's a forum, you've titled the thread "what would you do" and with this additional info I'd say as a boat owner you can presumably afford to replace the VHF you've dropped, presumably you're not a student or similar. So I'd either replace it with like for like, or give him the one from your boat. That's kinda what I'd expect as a skipper and fellow boat owner.

You've not given the exact details of how the VHF was lost but unless it was an emergency I'd not be taking a VHF onto the foredeck unless it was attached to me with a lanyard. If the skipper knew about you taking it, and you said "erm...no lanyard...are you sure" that's a different thing...but as the race had started I'd have just put it below anyway for the sake of 10 seconds.

That's my own opinion, and you and others may have different ones, but if you ask a question on a forum you will obviously get differing opinions!

 

[lw395]

Don’t give him money, far better to give him a replacement VHF radio.

Search for a rechargeable Baofeng UV-5R III. It will cost about £20. Chinese, of course, but high quality feel and incredible value for money.

They need to be programmed with software downloaded from the interweb. This will also need the dedicated patch lead. I can help you with both, if needed.

My view of being a skipper/owner is that “if you’re not prepared to lose it, break it or bleed, you shouldn’t be sailing”

Add insult to injury with a non-waterproof, non-type-approved piece of ebay tat?

 

[Old Bumbulum]

I think I shall just have to politely decline to crew for him again ...

My feelings exactly.
He needs to recognise this is racing and crew are there to help his, not their boat to win and who is responsible for the boat and all on it.

a racing incident and part of the cost of owning and skippering a boat in a race series, things get broken and costs incurred...these things happen?

100%

Or the ludicrous case above where the new dayskipper went aground and asked the crew to pay the excess? Who's in charge of the boat for Heaven's sake? If some goon of a skipper gets in front of a tanker and it runs up onto the Bramble Bank to avoid us buggered if I'm going to consider myself liable for any of the six figure claim from Shell. If I'd sat there discussing the approaching collision risk with another crew and hadn't mentioned it to the skipper it's a different story, but even so I'd expect the skipper to carry the lion's share as he is the Skipper.

If the skipper doesn't have the Captaincy or foresight to explan these details before you set off then skipper is 100% responsible outside crews' rank incompetence or gross negligence.
This is perhaps less so with paid crew who would doubtless have a greater liability but as guest or invited -

It also seems extraordinarily cheapskate and mean.

What if you'd fluffed handling the spinny and it burst? Would the so-and-so expect racing crew (or any other crew for that matter) to pay repairs?

Rather more than a bit steep, that. I'd be tempted to let him know why you won't be going again, if only for the protection of his furure victims.

You have the moral high ground, you very decently agreed to pay, but don't give him cash so he can upgrade to the latest all-singing-all-dancing radio, get an identical second hand one off ebay so he gets like for like, and if that's questionsed tell hm why. Remember, you didn'y lose a new one!

 

[Phildorset]

In this situation, as you asked and he's said he'd like you to then yes, in your shoes I would replace the radio but I would not accept any further invitation to join him. I don't think he should be asking you to replace it - I would only ask someone to replace broken / lost kit if I really felt it was complete negligence & that they hadn't been polite enough to offer AND I wasn't planning on inviting them again (actually, even then I doubt I'd ask... I'd just not invite them back and put it down to experience. I don't race my boat so may have this wrong - but whilst a reasonable handheld VHF might be £150 or so, I would have thought that having good and reliable crew was invaluable

 

[lw395]

In this situation, as you asked and he's said he'd like you to then yes, in your shoes I would replace the radio but I would not accept any further invitation to join him. I don't think he should be asking you to replace it - I would only ask someone to replace broken / lost kit if I really felt it was complete negligence & that they hadn't been polite enough to offer AND I wasn't planning on inviting them again (actually, even then I doubt I'd ask... I'd just not invite them back and put it down to experience. I don't race my boat so may have this wrong - but whilst a reasonable handheld VHF might be £150 or so, I would have thought that having good and reliable crew was invaluable

It's not an unreasonable viewpoint that taking the HH out of the cockpit just clipped to a lifejecket is a lack of reasonable care for the boat's gear.
The most valuable crew are those that show a little commitment and are prepared to put their hand up for a cock-up and pay for something they've lost.

Basically, the problem is there are no fixed rules about sailing with other people, so you have to either iron out every possibility up front or be prepared for the odd bill.
If it was a charter boat, there would be no question that losses would be paid for.

I think a lot of people might have fudged the issue, it's not uncommon for crew to make a contribution every time they race, I think some people I've sailed with would have gone halves. Others might have accepted the offer of a replacement, because to decline might be seen as rich owner patronising the crew. I've enjoyed sailing, mostly racing, with a lot of different people, and I'm constantly surprised by the range of ideas which various people consider 'normal', particularly when it comes to money.

 

[Skylark]

Add insult to injury with a non-waterproof, non-type-approved piece of ebay tat?

I described it as “high quality feel and incredible value for money” That’s why I suggested it.

My suggestion was based upon my experience of owning one. It is incredibly versatile as it can be programmed to receive air traffic and as a transceiver on marine vhf and amateur 2m vhf and 70cm uhf. It’s easy to program either simplex, duplex or repeater channels where used internationally.

I’ve held an amateur A license for almost 40 years. Within the amateur fraternity it has a good reputation. A friend of mine claims that the radio was originally manufactured by a major but that they sold the license to the Chinese when it, inevitably, became obsolete. The Chinese have re-badged it.

And your knowledge and experience for describing it as “ebay tat” is?

 

[PhillM]

Have to say I think I’m at odds with some here. YOU have made a gentlemanly offer and one that you should expect to honour without comeback. To pay up on the offer you made and then feel hard done to is unfair on the owner. He apparently didn’t ask you to pay up. So why shouldn’t he take you at your word and accept your offer? If you subsequently fall out or “decline in future” that is really unfair on the owner.

 

[capnsensible]

I described it as “high quality feel and incredible value for money” That’s why I suggested it.

My suggestion was based upon my experience of owning one. It is incredibly versatile as it can be programmed to receive air traffic and as a transceiver on marine vhf and amateur 2m vhf and 70cm uhf. It’s easy to program either simplex, duplex or repeater channels where used internationally.

I’ve held an amateur A license for almost 40 years. Within the amateur fraternity it has a good reputation. A friend of mine claims that the radio was originally manufactured by a major but that they sold the license to the Chinese when it, inevitably, became obsolete. The Chinese have re-badged it.

And your knowledge and experience for describing it as “ebay tat” is?

 

[shan]

I wouldn't even have asked if he 'wanted' me to replace the radio, I would do it as a matter of course. Regardless of how the situation came about, I would know that I was the person that lost it.

 

[lw395]

I described it as “high quality feel and incredible value for money” That’s why I suggested it.

My suggestion was based upon my experience of owning one. It is incredibly versatile as it can be programmed to receive air traffic and as a transceiver on marine vhf and amateur 2m vhf and 70cm uhf. It’s easy to program either simplex, duplex or repeater channels where used internationally.

I’ve held an amateur A license for almost 40 years. Within the amateur fraternity it has a good reputation. A friend of mine claims that the radio was originally manufactured by a major but that they sold the license to the Chinese when it, inevitably, became obsolete. The Chinese have re-badged it.

And your knowledge and experience for describing it as “ebay tat” is?

It's not waterproof so no way is it a fit for purpose, like-for-like replacement.
It's illegal to use on a marine licence.
The recipient will look on ebay, see that it's £20 and not be amused.