What windlass to install

[Ricd]

I am looking to install a windlass in anchor locker of my 2000 Bav 34. I have a few questions and would be grateful for any other advice?

1. The windlass will need to be inside the locker on a platform(yet to be constructed), should I use a horizontal or vertical windlass...good deep locker?
2. Should I run cables from domestic bats midship to windlass or install dedicated windlass bat in forepeak? Or, even a dedicated windlass bat midship?
3. Any recommendation of which windlass model/make to buy?
4. Any suggestions/guidance on constructing platform to carry windlass in anchor locker?

Thanks

 

[CJ13]

I'd go for a Lofrans vertical windlass every time. Bavaria wire factory fitted windlasses's via a fuse or breaker to the domestic batteries, so that the windlass can be operated without the engine running. Contactor is located behind the control panel ( above chart table) so no chance of water issues.

John

 

[Tranona]

Have a look at boat that has the factory platform installed to get the dimensions. However you will not be able to replicate the method of construction as the moulding is sandwiched between the hull and deck. You will need a substantial platform bonded to the hull and bulkhead with support knees underneath. An alternative is to cut the locker lid and bond the rear half to the deck with support underneath and mount the windlass on deck using a vertical axis type. An advantage of this method is that you have a greater drop of chain into the locker.

The factory installation was a Lofrans Cayman 88 horizontal axis, but later models switched to a Lewmar. I think you can get the Lofrans again as it is back in production, but there are many alternatives on the market. There is no need for a dedicated battery, use the existing service battery. You would normally have the engine running while using the windlass and the alternator will cope with the power demands for the short time you run the windlass.

 

[Ricd]

Have a look at boat that has the factory platform installed to get the dimensions. However you will not be able to replicate the method of construction as the moulding is sandwiched between the hull and deck. You will need a substantial platform bonded to the hull and bulkhead with support knees underneath. An alternative is to cut the locker lid and bond the rear half to the deck with support underneath and mount the windlass on deck using a vertical axis type. An advantage of this method is that you have a greater drop of chain into the locker.

The factory installation was a Lofrans Cayman 88 horizontal axis, but later models switched to a Lewmar. I think you can get the Lofrans again as it is back in production, but there are many alternatives on the market. There is no need for a dedicated battery, use the existing service battery. You would normally have the engine running while using the windlass and the alternator will cope with the power demands for the short time you run the windlass.

Any idea whether the factory fit was the 700 or 1000W and was it with 8 or 10mm chain?

 

[duncan99210]

We have a Bavaria 38 with a Lofrans Caymen 1000 watt using 8mm chain. It uses the factory fitted cables to run on the domestic batteries with the relay box fitted in the electrical bay next to the chart table. The winch needs three cables ( up, down and common return) sized to cope with the current. Ours are about 50mm squared IIRC. In addition you'll need to run three lightweight control wires to the anchor locker or forecabin for the controller unless you decide to fit a wireless remote of ebay (we've had one for four years now, makes life very simple as you can run the winch from anywhere on the boat).

As Tranona says, have a look at the factory installations if you can, it'll help you design the "shelf" to fit the winch to.

Final thought if you do go for the Lofrans, it comes with a rubber mat to mount it on. Throw it away, as all it does is to trap sea water round the base of the winch, destroying the paint and leading to the casing becoming corroded. We wound up having to take the casing back to bare metal and repaint it. The winch now stands on a marine ply plinth which encourages the water to drain away.

 

[CFarr]

Be careful if you're considering a Lofrans. I'd decided on one earlier this year but was put off by warnings from windlass suppliers and other forumites. hard to get hold of and spares a problem due to going bust/takeover etc. They may well be fully recovered by now but no danger checking them out.
I ended up with a Lewmar CPX2.

 

[MASH]

Ours are about 50mm squared IIRC.

Have a care making statements like that and getting the terminology wrong! A cable 50mm squared might be slung from a power station but not in a boat, unless it's a nuclear submarine. That's a cross-section the size of the heel on your shoe!

I suspect your cable is 50sq mm which is an entirely different matter.

 

[duncan99210]

Have a care making statements like that and getting the terminology wrong! A cable 50mm squared might be slung from a power station but not in a boat, unless it's a nuclear submarine. That's a cross-section the size of the heel on your shoe!

I suspect your cable is 50sq mm which is an entirely different matter.

You are of course quite correct. Word order was not always my strong suit......

 

[Ricd]

Thanks to all for this very clear and specific advice.

 

[NormanS]

Remember that the lower down you install the windlass, e.g. in the chain locker, the less vertical height you will have for the chain to stow in.

 

[Tranona]

We have a Bavaria 38 with a Lofrans Caymen 1000 watt using 8mm chain. It uses the factory fitted cables to run on the domestic batteries with the relay box fitted in the electrical bay next to the chart table. The winch needs three cables ( up, down and common return) sized to cope with the current. Ours are about 50mm squared IIRC. In addition you'll need to run three lightweight control wires to the anchor locker or forecabin for the controller unless you decide to fit a wireless remote of ebay (we've had one for four years now, makes life very simple as you can run the winch from anywhere on the boat).

As Tranona says, have a look at the factory installations if you can, it'll help you design the "shelf" to fit the winch to.

Final thought if you do go for the Lofrans, it comes with a rubber mat to mount it on. Throw it away, as all it does is to trap sea water round the base of the winch, destroying the paint and leading to the casing becoming corroded. We wound up having to take the casing back to bare metal and repaint it. The winch now stands on a marine ply plinth which encourages the water to drain away.

My 37 has exactly the same - and experienced the same problem with corrosion to the base. The service instructions do recommend you remove regularly to clean. Mine was so bad one of the mounting stud lugs had corroded away and the screws holding the access plate to the motor had corroded, so I bought a new one and took all the fastenings out and coated in Duralec before replacing, and painted the bottom face. The windlass was however 12 years old and had a hard life as a charter boat in the Med.

Lofrans are now back in production and the distributor is Peachment. I see them appearing again in the mail order catalogues so assume they are actually available.

 

[Billjratt]

Something to think about... If you are driving a windlass from aft mounted batteries and control gear, you DON'T need thick wire to drop the anchor, but you do need thick wire to lift it. So if you need 35mm times two for the length of the boat ( = most of Northern Rhodesia) to bring the anchor up, the third wire can be relatively thin as the anchor is actually being slowed by the windlass on the way down...
Best way is another battery in the forepeak, short fat wires, and long thin charge/control wires. PLUS the battery gets relatively little use, lots of charge, and will likely be a good emergency starter should the need arise (assuming you can move it) works for us, and by the way we like our Lofrans Tigress and keep it under a canvass cover which may help..Plus - windlass' are NOT cleats, take the overnight strain on a real cleat, preferably via a stretchy rope.

 

[NormanS]

Something to think about... If you are driving a windlass from aft mounted batteries and control gear, you DON'T need thick wire to drop the anchor, but you do need thick wire to lift it. So if you need 35mm times two for the length of the boat ( = most of Northern Rhodesia) to bring the anchor up, the third wire can be relatively thin as the anchor is actually being slowed by the windlass on the way down...
Best way is another battery in the forepeak, short fat wires, and long thin charge/control wires. PLUS the battery gets relatively little use, lots of charge, and will likely be a good emergency starter should the need arise (assuming you can move it) works for us, and by the way we like our Lofrans Tigress and keep it under a canvass cover which may help..Plus - windlass' are NOT cleats, take the overnight strain on a real cleat, preferably via a stretchy rope.

Eh?

 

[duncan99210]

A decent domestic bank (200 amp hours plus) will not really notice the demands a winch places on it. It is so much easier and cheaper to simply run properly sized cables from the relay box to the winch than it is to install yet another battery with the attendant need to build a proper box for it, run charging cable to the battery and you still have to run cables to the winch.

If you think you might need a spare starting battery, then get one of the suitcase stand by batteries. Easy to stow and keep charged and it's easy enough to ue it to start the car as well, should the need rise.

 

[Hadenough]

Eh?

Eh? +1. A windlass is under just as much, if not more strain than a cleat. I know for a fact that I can use my windlass cleat as a reliable attachment.

 

[ELAiNe333]

I don't suppose Bavaria already installed the cables with the wiring loom? I was surprised but grateful to find Elan had run heavy cables from switchpanel to forward in the focs'le with enough tail to do the job. It was not until I started stripping out to establish a cable route that I found them.

 

[charles_reed]

Remember that the lower down you install the windlass, e.g. in the chain locker, the less vertical height you will have for the chain to stow in.

and the overturning couple will be reduced.

Nearly all windlass installations (IMHO) suffer from the same drawback - the chain not feeding away without help.
This "clogging" is apparently mitigated by using SS chain, at vast cost.

 

[jwilson]

Eh? +1. A windlass is under just as much, if not more strain than a cleat. I know for a fact that I can use my windlass cleat as a reliable attachment.

I think the poster is referring to the fact that just using the windlass drum/gypsy to hold the boat when anchored is relying on the gears and clutch to hold the boat, neither of which is designed for the job, though many users do nothing else. Some windlasses have cleats fitted on top, but not many.

If the OP gets a Lofrans vertical windlass read and believe the bit in the instructions about regularly removing the warping drum and greasing - if you don't it will seize on surprisingly fast as the alloy drum corrodes and expands onto the S/S shaft.

 

[Ricd]

A decent domestic bank (200 amp hours plus) will not really notice the demands a winch places on it. It is so much easier and cheaper to simply run properly sized cables from the relay box to the winch than it is to install yet another battery with the attendant need to build a proper box for it, run charging cable to the battery and you still have to run cables to the winch.

If you think you might need a spare starting battery, then get one of the suitcase stand by batteries. Easy to stow and keep charged and it's easy enough to ue it to start the car as well, should the need rise.

Getting a lot of advice to avoid dedicated battery located in forepeak. We have 250AHr domestic and a dedicated starter bat so using these sounds good. I know it's a lot of large ops cable to run but even if put bat forwards the charging cables would also need to be pretty beefy.

 

[Ricd]

I don't suppose Bavaria already installed the cables with the wiring loom? I was surprised but grateful to find Elan had run heavy cables from switchpanel to forward in the focs'le with enough tail to do the job. It was not until I started stripping out to establish a cable route that I found them.

Will certainly have a good look first.