What was so great about the Pope?

Re: My friend you have the honour

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It's good to see that this thread is approaching 200 postings without an outbreak of hostilities.

You, however, started with accusations of bigotry to which you are now adding dishonesty and lying. No one has come to your support but several have supported Jimi. Perhaps you might learn something from that.

I would suggest that you leave it at that and address the original question of what has the Pope done to justify being called great.

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If you bother to read the thread you will see that it was not I who brought up the subject of bigotry - all I am doing is holding up a mirror to Jimi - if he doesn't like what he sees then that is his problem not mine.

I admit "lie" was a poorly chosen word - I believe his statements are false but that does not necessarily make them lies.

Have I missed the posting where Jimi defines what he means by "the established church" as I requested? How can you have a reasoned debate with someone who won't even define the terms he is using?

There is no point trying to address the real point when people are not open to discussion.

However since you ask then clearly the Pope was one of the great leaders of the 20th century. Just look at the funeral - how many other people in history have been able to command that level of respect from people who did not necessarily share his beliefs?

The personal testimony of hundreds who met him and had dealings with him is that he was a good and holy man I did not know him personally but those people I do know, and whose opinion I trust, say the same.
 
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Science tells us of the origins of the universe, ie. big bang etc., but, as far as I am aware, it doesn't explain where the compressed matter came from in the first place. There's the expanding and contracting universe theory, but where did the first universe come from? And all the energy required to kick it off? And all the energy required to light it up when kicked off?


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I think that that is the point. To those with faith religion offers an explanation. Those who do not believe say "We don't know.........yet". As far as I can see thousands of years ago men invented god/gods simply to explain the inexplicable. A convenient explanation, but no more. As science and knowledge increases the case for god becomes less simply because more things can be explained. Hopefully we will eventually really know what the "truth" is and, when we do, I am convinced that it will not involve any of the many gods that men have invented.
 
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As we all know, Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely

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I don't think even good old Niccolo would have applied this maxim to God! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
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I don't think even good old Niccolo would have applied this maxim to God! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

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Neither would I....to do so would be to accept his existence!

It's a bit like the Heineken adverts; I don't do god but if I did I'm sure that he would probably be a very good god! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
So Jimi

Given that your original post was 4 days before the funeral, and having witnessed both the funeral and the responses here.

Would you still ask the original question, or has anything changed?
 
No I think I'd still ask the same question. Given that they are now talking of beautifying JPII I still have not heard one accomplishment that warrants it. From what I gather his main accomplishments as Pope were internal to the church organisation by reversing the previous decentralisation process. However IMHO given the opportunities that his position gave to add to mankind greater good, I can't think of any thing and no one in this thread has come up with anything either.

Just to keep the balance and ensure I'm not classed as a bigot ;-) I can't say Ian Pasley,Tony Blair,George Bush, or Mugabe has either but I consider the Pope a much nicer and more inoffensive character than any of the rest named.
 
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