Nickel
Well-Known Member
Re: Mine\'s a Guinness, thanks.
Sounds good
Sounds good
What was so great about the Pope?
- Thread starter jimi
- Start date
StugeronSteve
Well-Known Member
Thanks, beautifully expressed.
tome
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
"There were no atheists in the trenches."
[/ QUOTE ]
There aren't many in a full gale at sea either.
Oops, that was a bit boaty! Sorry.
"There were no atheists in the trenches."
[/ QUOTE ]
There aren't many in a full gale at sea either.
Oops, that was a bit boaty! Sorry.
StugeronSteve
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
There aren't many in a full gale at sea either.
[/ QUOTE ] But oh so true!
There aren't many in a full gale at sea either.
[/ QUOTE ] But oh so true!
Colin_S
Well-Known Member
And have we not all prayed to the big white porcelene god at some time in our life?
On the subject of there being a God who, when he had a bit of time on his hands, sat down and knocked up earth. Who created him then? Religion seems to hinge around some supreme being who is responsible for the creation of everything around us but where exactly did our creator come from? Devout non believer here I'm afraid.
On the subject of there being a God who, when he had a bit of time on his hands, sat down and knocked up earth. Who created him then? Religion seems to hinge around some supreme being who is responsible for the creation of everything around us but where exactly did our creator come from? Devout non believer here I'm afraid.
StugeronSteve
Well-Known Member
Wow, now we are in to theological muddy waters. As I understand things the two candidates for the nature of God are: a) A simple timeless God that is no thing, or b) a temporal suffering God. FWIW my own view leans towards the temporal God for whom the future is yet to happen, which, of course, doesn't rule out "His" always having been. This creates great problems with the concept of omniscience, as to be truly omniscient one must have to know the future. Omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence present paradoxes (pl?) that have puzzled mankind since before Jesus was a lad. If God is omnipotent can he create a rock so heavy that God could not lift it?. Can "he" himself worship a supreme being? etc, etc. We can explain most things by saying that God is capable of all things that are logically possible, but the origin of God defies conventional logic.
Try reading "The puzzle of God" by Peter Vardy, or "God a Guide for the Perplexed" by Keith Ward. Both good reads with good reasoning.
Science tells us of the origins of the universe, ie. big bang etc., but, as far as I am aware, it doesn't explain where the compressed matter came from in the first place. There's the expanding and contracting universe theory, but where did the first universe come from? And all the energy required to kick it off? And all the energy required to light it up when kicked off?
It all boils down to a matter of FAITH. I'm confident that I will find out one day, but I wont be able to come back and tell.
Try reading "The puzzle of God" by Peter Vardy, or "God a Guide for the Perplexed" by Keith Ward. Both good reads with good reasoning.
Science tells us of the origins of the universe, ie. big bang etc., but, as far as I am aware, it doesn't explain where the compressed matter came from in the first place. There's the expanding and contracting universe theory, but where did the first universe come from? And all the energy required to kick it off? And all the energy required to light it up when kicked off?
It all boils down to a matter of FAITH. I'm confident that I will find out one day, but I wont be able to come back and tell.
Re: Thanks...and a few thoughts
[ QUOTE ]
Would like to thank everyone for maintaining a reasonable stance on this thread - I have only needed to intervene once
[/ QUOTE ]
Proof surely of the existence of a higher being… I mean higher than a ybw.com Group Editor.
[ QUOTE ]
Would like to thank everyone for maintaining a reasonable stance on this thread - I have only needed to intervene once
[/ QUOTE ]
Proof surely of the existence of a higher being… I mean higher than a ybw.com Group Editor.
walker
Well-Known Member
Clifford Longley knows the answer to this. On 'Thought for the Day' this morning, he said that when the ex-pope gets through the pearly gates, God will pray for him.
Joe_Cole
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
On the subject of there being a God who, when he had a bit of time on his hands, sat down and knocked up earth. Who created him then? Religion seems to hinge around some supreme being who is responsible for the creation of everything around us but where exactly did our creator come from? Devout non believer here I'm afraid.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just how I feel about it. It seems that everything that is good is taken to be proof of a god. Everything that is bad is because he was such a nice chap he gave us free will so that we could screw things up on our own.
And why on earth can the devotees never explain all the different gods and beliefs from around the world?
Confirmed non-believer here.
Of course, mine is the one true faith! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
On the subject of there being a God who, when he had a bit of time on his hands, sat down and knocked up earth. Who created him then? Religion seems to hinge around some supreme being who is responsible for the creation of everything around us but where exactly did our creator come from? Devout non believer here I'm afraid.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just how I feel about it. It seems that everything that is good is taken to be proof of a god. Everything that is bad is because he was such a nice chap he gave us free will so that we could screw things up on our own.
And why on earth can the devotees never explain all the different gods and beliefs from around the world?
Confirmed non-believer here.
Of course, mine is the one true faith! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
hlb
RIP
Well, If the Pope is going to heaven, which is suposed to be a far far better place. Why is every one so upset. The Pope going to heaven must be simmilar to us lot going boating, but like the live aboards down below, never to return to a life of work. Sort of perminant retirement in extacy. Would have thought a leaving party more apropriate!
tome
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
The Pope going to heaven must be simmilar to us lot going boating, but like the live aboards down below,...
[/ QUOTE ]
I do hope you don't mean this in the biblical sense!
The Pope going to heaven must be simmilar to us lot going boating, but like the live aboards down below,...
[/ QUOTE ]
I do hope you don't mean this in the biblical sense!
hlb
RIP
Oh no, I meant that the liveaboard lot are lower down the forums /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif. Not that he's going to hell or there abouts. I hope this clariffies the matter!!
jimi
Well-Known Member
Acshully I've been thinking about this and have daecided that if I'm going to have a god, I want a real one. I do'nt want a namby pamby jumped up one that's only just superipr to my boss .. I want a full blown almighty who has a master plan, can arrange big bangs and inhabits a dimesion we have'nt reached yer .. is this an unrealistic ambition?
Joe_Cole
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
.. is this an unrealistic ambition?
[/ QUOTE ]
Of course not. You just need faith. Moving mountains and all that.
.. is this an unrealistic ambition?
[/ QUOTE ]
Of course not. You just need faith. Moving mountains and all that.
Nickel
Well-Known Member
Well I tend towards the all powerful Creator beyond creation. I see the Big Bang as a breath of love or maybe loneliness[?].
I see God as absolutely all powerful , but limited in this one fundamental aspect - he has created us, he loves us, and he has given us free-will. As a parent of teenage girls Jimi, I imagine you will completely understand God's consequent suffering and powerlessness!
I see God as absolutely all powerful , but limited in this one fundamental aspect - he has created us, he loves us, and he has given us free-will. As a parent of teenage girls Jimi, I imagine you will completely understand God's consequent suffering and powerlessness!
Joe_Cole
Well-Known Member
As we all know, Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Pierrot
N/A
Re: My friend you have the honour
[ QUOTE ]
Pierrot, you are not reading the responses here. I'm speaking from the point of view of being brought up Roman Catholic, and later being a scientist.
I don't see anything in Jimi's posts that is bigoted, but you seem to have some issues with what he has posted. Perhaps it might help if you can point out exactly what you disagree with, as so far it's a bit woolly
[/ QUOTE ]
I did point out to Jimi a number of examples of "facts" he posted that I believe have to be untrue. He has declined to provide any support for his "facts", and instead responses with an increasingly personal attack on me - culminating in refusing to talk to me again (I'm not really worried about that bit).
What I find particularly objectionable about this is that he makes up facts of his own to support his prejudiced opinions, and then refuses to back those up or even to discuss them.
Jimi is quite entitled to his opinion, and to be honest I don't think I would even care to discuss that with him. However he makes up lies to try to support his position, and he seems deaf to anyone who challenges that. That to my mind makes him bigotted.
As I've said above, bigottry is not really about the ultimate truth or otherwise of one's opinions, you can hold opinions that are totally true and still be a bigot. Bigotry is about one's openness to understanding the position of others, and having one's own position challenged.
Someone who refuses to enter discussion with me about the statements he makes to justify his position, then turns it into a personal attack on me, and refuses to answer my legitimate points about his arguments; then finally ignores me; seems to me amply to fit the definition of bigottry.
During this entire thread I have said very little that would give anyone grounds to guess how I feel about the real issues involved.
I am more than happy to enter into a reasoned discussion about anything and everything with someone who is open to honest discussion or debate. However such debate must include allowing others to question the "facts" from which you draw your conclusions.
There is little point trying to have a reasoned discussion with one who bases their arguments on lies or misconceptions and won't allow you examine those false assumptions.
[ QUOTE ]
Pierrot, you are not reading the responses here. I'm speaking from the point of view of being brought up Roman Catholic, and later being a scientist.
I don't see anything in Jimi's posts that is bigoted, but you seem to have some issues with what he has posted. Perhaps it might help if you can point out exactly what you disagree with, as so far it's a bit woolly
[/ QUOTE ]
I did point out to Jimi a number of examples of "facts" he posted that I believe have to be untrue. He has declined to provide any support for his "facts", and instead responses with an increasingly personal attack on me - culminating in refusing to talk to me again (I'm not really worried about that bit).
What I find particularly objectionable about this is that he makes up facts of his own to support his prejudiced opinions, and then refuses to back those up or even to discuss them.
Jimi is quite entitled to his opinion, and to be honest I don't think I would even care to discuss that with him. However he makes up lies to try to support his position, and he seems deaf to anyone who challenges that. That to my mind makes him bigotted.
As I've said above, bigottry is not really about the ultimate truth or otherwise of one's opinions, you can hold opinions that are totally true and still be a bigot. Bigotry is about one's openness to understanding the position of others, and having one's own position challenged.
Someone who refuses to enter discussion with me about the statements he makes to justify his position, then turns it into a personal attack on me, and refuses to answer my legitimate points about his arguments; then finally ignores me; seems to me amply to fit the definition of bigottry.
During this entire thread I have said very little that would give anyone grounds to guess how I feel about the real issues involved.
I am more than happy to enter into a reasoned discussion about anything and everything with someone who is open to honest discussion or debate. However such debate must include allowing others to question the "facts" from which you draw your conclusions.
There is little point trying to have a reasoned discussion with one who bases their arguments on lies or misconceptions and won't allow you examine those false assumptions.
Joe_Cole
Well-Known Member
Re: My friend you have the honour
It's good to see that this thread is approaching 200 postings without an outbreak of hostilities.
You, however, started with accusations of bigotry to which you are now adding dishonesty and lying. No one has come to your support but several have supported Jimi. Perhaps you might learn something from that.
I would suggest that you leave it at that and address the original question of what has the Pope done to justify being called great.
It's good to see that this thread is approaching 200 postings without an outbreak of hostilities.
You, however, started with accusations of bigotry to which you are now adding dishonesty and lying. No one has come to your support but several have supported Jimi. Perhaps you might learn something from that.
I would suggest that you leave it at that and address the original question of what has the Pope done to justify being called great.
Mike21
Well-Known Member
Re: Bigot?????
Jimi put links to various resources on the net to back up what he was posting.
You complained that Jimi was a bigot, yet he has researched information to backup his stance. You unfortunately don't seem to have bothered to follow the links., but instead resorted to personnel attacks to justify your rejection of his arguments.
Unfortunately having been brought up a catholic, I have found the most bigotted people to be those that slavishly follow the dogma laid down by the church and attack those who would question it .
Jimi put links to various resources on the net to back up what he was posting.
You complained that Jimi was a bigot, yet he has researched information to backup his stance. You unfortunately don't seem to have bothered to follow the links., but instead resorted to personnel attacks to justify your rejection of his arguments.
Unfortunately having been brought up a catholic, I have found the most bigotted people to be those that slavishly follow the dogma laid down by the church and attack those who would question it .
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
By caring for each other we are loving God.
I respect your way of life and your religious sceptism,
[/ QUOTE ]
This is the nub. I am a 'moral' person and I enjoy helping people. But I do not believe in a god.
According to your statement I am, despite myself, loving God.
Well I have to tell you I am not. You must not interperet my actions as validity of a higher being. I am responsible for my own actions.
By caring for each other we are loving God.
I respect your way of life and your religious sceptism,
[/ QUOTE ]
This is the nub. I am a 'moral' person and I enjoy helping people. But I do not believe in a god.
According to your statement I am, despite myself, loving God.
Well I have to tell you I am not. You must not interperet my actions as validity of a higher being. I am responsible for my own actions.