What varnish, and how to apply it?

[Scotty_Tradewind]

I found tonkinois to be a bit vulnerable to both knocks and solvents...
I did a prolonged and ultimately (for me) beautiful finish on the saloon table on our liveaboard. It never seemed to harden properly, and I was aghast when a bit of antifoul dripped on it and reacted....

That's strange. I wonder if you put too thick a coat on each coat before the previous one really dried/cured and released all its thinners? You may have been 'trapping' the thinners in??
We used to have that problem with traditional varnish many decades ago, if we were trying to varnish in the winter. By putting another coat on to what was appearing to be a dry undercoat, we had the same problems. It seems that you really want dry, warm conditions to get the best results, allowing each coat to thoroughly dry/cure.
Our rowing/racing shell boats used to have the thinnest of coats with many days in between each coat and sometimes up to 10 coats.

 

[Tranona]

If you want a more 'work-day' look then a Sikkens type stain/treatment is probably easier to apply and maintain, but it shows.. Our Finesse was finished all over in this stuff when we bought her and it cried out that the owner didn't really care.

No, it only indicates that he had different priorities and that economic protection of the wood was more important than spending hours on what will always be a less satisfactory method of protection for the wood.

If you see wood on boats as an opportunity to spend vast amounts of time getting it to look like furniture, then stick to traditional varnish. If you want a serviceable coating to protect your wood while using it in a hostile environment, then take advantage of modern technology and use modern coatings.

 

[2nd_apprentice]

Le Tonkinois every time...
I find it very durable,(had it on one washboard and it outlasted International on the other washboard by 3 years) very uv stable and easy to apply/recoat.

Sorry should have made that clearer. My "non abrasion resistant" comment referred to the Huile Bio Impression. That's an oil finish, not varnish. Can be used as an undercoat or where easy touch up qualities are required but, as I said it's not that durable.

 

[ccscott49]

My weapons of choice these days after many, many years varnishing, are Awlspar HS (high solids) poly varnish, finished with Awlbrite.
Or Sicomin, epoxy and poly system, both are fantastic, will be doing my cabin and wheelhouse external with sicomin this winter. Some other areas, with awlspar.
I used to use Epifanes, still do for internal work, however the other two are bloody marvellous, but eye wateringly expensive, especially the awlspar.
Sorry but I just do not like the finish of the sikkens products. They just look too artificial, (like fence stains)

 

[alahol2]

Sorry but I just do not like the finish of the sikkens products. They just look too artificial, (like fence stains)

I would agree with you for most of the highly pigmented Sikkens products. But use the Cetol Filter 7 (Deal colour) and the finish, certainly on mahogany/iroko, is almost indistinguishable from a satin finish varnish. It even has a 'depth' to it. What's more, it can be applied under just about any conditions short of rain without affecting the finish. To find a product I can use in January and get those kind of results is next to miraculous after so many years of varnish, scrape off, varnish, scr...

 

[prv]

No, it only indicates that he had different priorities and that economic protection of the wood was more important than spending hours on what will always be a less satisfactory method of protection for the wood.

I'm getting a bit concerned by this talk of Cetol as ugly. Don't suppose anyone in the Southampton area has some woodwork thus treated that I could come and peer at?

Pete

 

[SailBobSquarePants]

Cetol can be ugly...

depends upon the colour you chose. After talking to International (distributor of Sikkens) on the phone, they convinced me that Natural was the colour I had seen used elsewhere (What they call Natural Teak in the US, but don't distribute in the UK). Frankly, it it TERRIBLE stuff, wished I had done more test pieces with it. It looks plasticy, and hides any grain. It looks much like the plastic wood on old American estate cars, er, station wagons.

After a coat of that, we changed to Light Teak, which is a MUCH better shade, and looks more like wood. It just about saved the day, and is bearable. We have two wood cleats we did not put the Natural on, just the Light Teak, and they look good.

I have also heard recently that some professionals mix the Light Teak with the Light Pine, and get a very nice colour. I personally think the Light Pine looks orange-ish...the Contessa 32 across from my boat has it.

But make no mistake - NONE of the Cetol finishes compare to what I got with Epiphanes on my companionway, applied relatively inexpertly by myself.

Having seen the samples posted of the Awlgrip HS today, and having seen how good Awlgrip paint is on my burgundy hull, I would also like to take a look at that next time, despite the expense. Frankly, the man-hours cost so much that the difference in varnish price would have to be very, very large to sway me...

 

[ccscott49]

depends upon the colour you chose. After talking to International (distributor of Sikkens) on the phone, they convinced me that Natural was the colour I had seen used elsewhere (What they call Natural Teak in the US, but don't distribute in the UK). Frankly, it it TERRIBLE stuff, wished I had done more test pieces with it. It looks plasticy, and hides any grain. It looks much like the plastic wood on old American estate cars, er, station wagons.

After a coat of that, we changed to Light Teak, which is a MUCH better shade, and looks more like wood. It just about saved the day, and is bearable. We have two wood cleats we did not put the Natural on, just the Light Teak, and they look good.

I have also heard recently that some professionals mix the Light Teak with the Light Pine, and get a very nice colour. I personally think the Light Pine looks orange-ish...the Contessa 32 across from my boat has it.

But make no mistake - NONE of the Cetol finishes compare to what I got with Epiphanes on my companionway, applied relatively inexpertly by myself.

Having seen the samples posted of the Awlgrip HS today, and having seen how good Awlgrip paint is on my burgundy hull, I would also like to take a look at that next time, despite the expense. Frankly, the man-hours cost so much that the difference in varnish price would have to be very, very large to sway me...

One of the great things about the awlspar HS, (remember HS, that's the key) is two coats of it, looks like 6 coats of epifanes! So you are saving a huge amount of time, plus you can put two coats if not mnore on in a day, which saves even more time, especially if the weather is "iffy". The "topcoat" (optional) of awlbrite, can be applied two or three coats a day and goes a long way.
Sicomin is cheaper than awlspar and is also a fabulous product.

 

[chinita]

Of all the different products i have used, this was the worst. Claimed that the D1 "soaks into the wood" Not in my experience having poured a whole tin into my Douglas Fir mast then finished with 6 coats of D2. Did all the external brightwork as well. A month's work on and off, with the stripping. In year 3 the film broke and when I stripped it, thankfully most just crumbled away. That was when I switched to Sikkens - best decision in boat maintenance I have ever made.

It is fascinating to read others experience.

I have had nothing but success with D1/D2. Three years ago I applied jut D1 to my teak laid cockpit seats. I thoroughly soaked them with D1 and then, just out of interest, I rubbed the last coat in with a lint free cloth. The result was beautiful, a rich, silky, non-slip finish which has not been touched since.

The rest of the exterior is finished with D2. Just a hint of a dry day and I can re-coat in under an hour. No skin on the can, no thinning, no sanding.

I have a theory that the formula has changed a little since they acquired Owatrol. I believe that they have added a bit of that magic stuff into the mix.

On interior work I use Jotun Ravillakk. A traditional varnish and not easy to source which needs careful handling once the can has been opened. Produces a lovely mirror finish - for me anyway!

 

[doug748]

I'm getting a bit concerned by this talk of Cetol as ugly. Don't suppose anyone in the Southampton area has some woodwork thus treated that I could come and peer at?

Pete

I forgot to say, in my first post (Cetol - Light Pine on teak)...
In effect it comes mid way between a garden post stain and a true oiled finish. When first applied it looks like a pigmented low lustre varnish but that goes within weeks and leaves a pleasant slightly oiled look. As others have said the key thing it is very quick to apply and overcoat, and it does not peel or crack.
If you are like me you may like it a lot for, whisper this very quietly, to some eyes bright yacht varnish looks a bit overdone.

 

[ccscott49]

I forgot to say, in my first post, that I use Cetol - Light Pine (on teak)
In effect it comes mid way between a garden post stain and a true oiled finish. When first applied it looks like a pigmented low lustre varnish but that goes within weeks and leaves a pleasant slightly oiled look. As others have said the key thing it is very quick to apply and overcoat, and it does not peel or crack.
If you are like me you may like it a lot for, whisper this very quietly, to some eyes bright yacht varnish looks a bit overdone.

WHAT!!! overdone! You cad! How dare you, Should be struck off! Only joking!! Sometimes when used in the wrong places or wrong boat (dare I say) it can look a bit like that!

 

[narcer]

I forgot to say, in my first post (Cetol - Light Pine on teak)...
In effect it comes mid way between a garden post stain and a true oiled finish. When first applied it looks like a pigmented low lustre varnish but that goes within weeks and leaves a pleasant slightly oiled look. As others have said the key thing it is very quick to apply and overcoat, and it does not peel or crack.
If you are like me you may like it a lot for, whisper this very quietly, to some eyes bright yacht varnish looks a bit overdone.

I agree you can easily overdo any surfaces when there´s simply too much high gloss everywhere. However, finding a suitable combination I think is the trick - contrasting areas with satined look and others with a high gloss clean look. For example Solway Maid and Mercury are done like this with some areas of teak even left with the "scrubbed" effect but finished very well.

 

[Crabber24]

It is fascinating to read others experience.

I have had nothing but success with D1/D2. Three years ago I applied jut D1 to my teak laid cockpit seats. I thoroughly soaked them with D1 and then, just out of interest, I rubbed the last coat in with a lint free cloth. The result was beautiful, a rich, silky, non-slip finish which has not been touched since.

The rest of the exterior is finished with D2. Just a hint of a dry day and I can re-coat in under an hour. No skin on the can, no thinning, no sanding.

I too have a good experience with D1/D2 both on teak and spars. Just that light rub and new coat each season picks it up nicely. Only downside so far is that it is not very resistant to abrasion but damaged areas are easily patchable.

Although it claims to have u/v filters it may well be less successful in lower latitudes.

John

 

[Bob_Ranft]

Just a note for internal varnish. Using International Satin Finish varnish on a 15 foot wide bulkhead in a catamaran - ended up with slight brush marks showing after the final coat.

Left the varnish to harden off for a week plus - lightly sanded the brush marks out, then pondered what to use to apply one more finishing coat without brush marks.

Years back all the varnish in ship yards etc. was applied without a brush in sight, they used pads as per french polishing.

So grabbed a new tack cloth, made a pad, dipped it in the varnish and applied a thin finishing coat. The biggest surprise was the time saving over using a brush, basically took one tenth of the time. Not a brush mark in sight. Since then I use this method for all large flat areas that require varnishing, especially for the last coat.