ducked
Well-Known Member
Mini?
What to do with end-of-life plastic boats?
- Thread starter CleanOceanSailing
- Start date
Sea Change
Well-Known Member
This is a non issue. Early examples aside, modern EV batteries look set to last fit hundreds of thousands of miles without losing any more than 20% of their capacity. EVs used as taxis are racking up 300,000 miles on their original motors and batteries.
Source?
Neeves
Well-Known Member
Articles like
‘We’ve seen this before’: Used electric vehicle prices and sales hit rock bottom
A thesis of the article is that the fall in second hand prices is because of price wars, these are not likely to change in the medium term. Another thesis is that prices are falling because of improvements in technology - that's not going to change either.
So what is going to happen to all these over valued, old tech vehicles
Currently we cannot travel from Sydney to Melbourne nor Brisbane without stopping for a considerable period it time to re-charge Oz has a long way to go
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RunAgroundHard
Well-Known Member
The European Boating Agency (EBA) which the RYA and The Barge Association are members, generally agree that compulsory registration for boats within their own countries is not beneficial to boating. They specifically make a point about abandoned boats, but in the context of ownership across international borders. Anecdotally, it is such a low cost to register a boat, perhaps such schemes would not cover their overheads and therefore is a cost to the UK exchequer, which is not acceptable in my opinion.
https://eba.eu.com/wp-content/uploa...statements/eba-position-boat-registration.pdf
Participant organisations – EBA
I wonder if the RYA would not support compulsory registration as it could be seen as a barrier to participation, where increasing participation is a a key tenet of the RYA.
https://eba.eu.com/wp-content/uploa...statements/eba-position-boat-registration.pdf
Participant organisations – EBA
I wonder if the RYA would not support compulsory registration as it could be seen as a barrier to participation, where increasing participation is a a key tenet of the RYA.
mrming
Well-Known Member
We had a couple of lads in our marina turn up with a nice Leisure 23. They had obviously had zero training. I saw them go out and struggle a few times. They had a short shaft outboard where the prop was barely immersed. 3 years later the boat is still sitting in the marina, totally green and mouldy. In their case there was no barrier to participation, but the lack of training has led to another ghost boat. If they had come in contact with the RYA things might have worked out differently. If the boat had to be registered in some way they may have taken the whole thing more seriously- difficult to say. What is for certain is that zero training led to an abandoned boat in this case.
Sea Change
Well-Known Member
That article doesn't back up your claim. It doesn't even mention battery replacement.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Well I would expect EBS to say that - to push back on increasing bureaucracy. And that had been my view.
But I do wonder if the boat recycling issue is such that we might need to concede the registration point in a managed way, rather than bury heads in the mud?
The point against registration for abandoned boats as “boat may be registered in a different country” may apply in somewhere like Greece or Croatia, where masses of boats from other countries - but hardly applies to the old boats cluttering up UK creeks and boatyards.
We have seen people like PeelPorts/Clydeport seeking to bring in a private company enforced registration scheme - costing £120 per annum as opposed to SSR £40 or so for 5 years. A large part of their claimed rationale is abandoned boats.
Personally I would much rather have mandated SSR managed by a national body than mandatory registration at vastly higher cost and enforced by private profit driven port operators.
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Supertramp
Well-Known Member
An enforced registration scheme is likely to reveal and generate a glut of abandoned boats as owners of smaller, cheaper boats decline to pay it. It will be interesting to see how the Clyde experiment unfolds. Isn't a levy on existing fees such as local marina charges or insurance simpler to administer? Perhaps linked to registered disposal agents who have procedures and documentation to do it properly.
Whilst I see some sense in a comprehensive registration service I have the suspicion that it would start to attract many other costs beyond disposal which are currently covered by port authorities, voluntary organisations (RNLI) and coastguards. Then sailing takes another lurch further upmarket and further into regulation, something I feel would be a negative step.
Whilst I see some sense in a comprehensive registration service I have the suspicion that it would start to attract many other costs beyond disposal which are currently covered by port authorities, voluntary organisations (RNLI) and coastguards. Then sailing takes another lurch further upmarket and further into regulation, something I feel would be a negative step.
Sea Change
Well-Known Member
Here's a counter piece that actually does mention EV battery life. We can expect EVs to last about twice as long as a petrol or diesel vehicle.
How Long Does an Electric Car Battery Last? | EV Connect — EV Connect
Avocet
Well-Known Member
A fairly eclectic mix in our student house. A Marina, an Opel Kadett, an MG Magnette and a Citroen DS!
ducked
Well-Known Member
I always assumed a DS used some kind of Warp-Drive.
ducked
Well-Known Member
A novel way to estimate car longevity shows that electric vehicles’ life mileage is increasing fast
Has a graph for recent lifespans, pretty flat in general, rising quite sharply for electrics, and falling for plug-in hybrids. They dont really seem to explain why the plug ins are estimated to die (or be killed) younger.
Sea Change
Well-Known Member
They're the most complicated technology with the most to go wrong.
Interestingly, hybrids are also the most likely to go on fire, followed by ICE, with EV the least likely. Which runs contrary to common perception.
seeSimon
Well-Known Member
Defining "Unseaworthy" is fraught with difficulties. It is also a very subjective, and also emotive term.
Particularly where the "standards" (in this case perhaps RCD or International Sailing type "regulations") are very loose, to the point of becoming almost random.
Both my 9ft tender and my 28ft yot are plated RCD C. Clealry this is bollox.
And then there's "unseaworthy " in the sense of saftey for those on board. Hence passenger ships are required to be built and operated to higher standards.
In my view, this new green environmental issue, along with the similarly emotive and subjective "drink boating" will be used by "the authorities " as a stalking horse for compulsory registration, licencing (of boats and crew) with associated patrols and enforcement.
All of which will, of course, need to be paid for - by us.
seeSimon
Well-Known Member
With benefits, in this case "assets" also come responsibilities...
Hereabouts, we are trying very hard to improve and maintain the chain of ownership, and emphasising associated responsibilities.
We are nowadays rather more careful whom we admit to our self-help "boat club". No more unknown "mates of mates" with £100 boats off ebay are allowed.
We don't want them dumping their cr@p on our moorings.
We expect members heirs and beneficiaries to retain responsibility for their property. We know who they are, and where they live.
One gentleman succumbed, and paid for responsible disposal when we offered to load his "boat" on an agricultural trailer with a members telehoist, and deliver it to his front garden, at cost of course!
We seem to be having more success at wreck removal than many of the local authorities? However, prevention 9f any future recurrence is critical for the survival of small self help groups like ours.
Small scale wreck removal is likely to become a thriving industry, for a short time at least...once the magic "grant available" gets mentioned.
...imho....
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RogerJolly
Well-Known Member
Would that be part of the point? The legal hoops, trying to contact owners etc, could be usefully eliminated.
Following compulsory registration, after a year two's grace, any unregistered boat could be defined as abandoned and so subject to being legally impounded out of hand and disposed off.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Precisely. And perhaps legally removed while still afloat rather than after sunk, making much cheaper to clear up.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
How many people are being laid off because they cannot sell them?
Sea Change
Well-Known Member
Is that the latest anti EV argument? I can't keep up.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Next to my last factory was a scrap yard that crushed cars to the size of a suitcase. They had a hydraulic excavator fitted with a 5 fingered grab insted of a bucket. It was a work of art how the driver stripped a car. He first ripped the bonnet off. Then dropped the jaws in round the engine & picked the car up by it & shook the car until the engine broke free. . To remove the wheels he just ripped them off. Then he picked the shell up & swung it up in the air on to a high heap of bodies.
So from this I reckon the same machine could rip a keel off a boat. Same for engine & rudder etc. The mast cooker & any other useful internals can be removed manually & sold. The winches ripped off & scrapped. Then the whole boat picked up & dropped into a 30ft skip where it could be scrunched up into pieces in half an hour just by picking bits up & crushing them.
Some marinas have such diggers for marina maintenance & just need to swop the bucket for the grab a couple of times a year to break up a few boats. Obviously it costs money but it makes a product that can go to landfill.
So from this I reckon the same machine could rip a keel off a boat. Same for engine & rudder etc. The mast cooker & any other useful internals can be removed manually & sold. The winches ripped off & scrapped. Then the whole boat picked up & dropped into a 30ft skip where it could be scrunched up into pieces in half an hour just by picking bits up & crushing them.
Some marinas have such diggers for marina maintenance & just need to swop the bucket for the grab a couple of times a year to break up a few boats. Obviously it costs money but it makes a product that can go to landfill.
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