What to do if your shaft seal leaks?

[Yara]

Oops! .....Read the title, noted over 50 replies and 2000+ views, decided there was a lot of interest from a lot of readers - so clicked on to see wGoogle TURP het.

No. Not about age-related incontinence after all......

Google TURP, make sure you have a good surgeon, and ask for a laser job.

 

[Simondjuk]

Good morning:
Yes, I noticed your comments and dismissed them as being an inapplicable "red herring" as there is no comparison between a stand alone seal and brake shoes which must fit and match other items within the wheel - any mismatch would be instantly noticeable.

If you are so interested you might consider and provide answers to the following questions raised above:

1. Is the rubber spacer part of the normal components used by PYI?
2. If not where did it come from?
3. If it is part of the normal components, why is it used instead of providing a larger carbon piece?
4. Was the carbon piece I was provided meant for a smaller diameter stern tuber and therefore shorter preventing it from extending deeper into the bellows thereby allowing the aft clip to fully clamp to the aft end of the carbon piece?
5. Was the action or inaction and waffling by Seaview and PYI what one would expect from a reputable company selling vital safety equipment world wide?
6. Is a purchaser entitled to expect the components he is sold to be the correct components?

Cheers

Squeaky

1. Not on the carbon end of any PSS seal I've ever seen.

2. I don't know. Bodged on by the retailer to make up a seal from bits and pieces maybe?

3. As far as I know, it's not a standard piece.

4. No idea.

5. You've made your own mind up about that.

6. Ideally, yes, but the installer should also confirm they are correct before fitting.

Regardless, both you and your yard failed to heed the instructions when fitting the seals. Having checked, they explicitly say that the fitting of the carbon to the bellows must be checked to ensure that both hose clips are securing one to the other correctly. There's even a diagram to show what this means.

Anyway, you're determined to make the facts fit your agenda, so I'm wasting my time pointing out the obvious failings in the installation process yet again.

 

[vyv_cox]

Here's a photo of mine taken a few minutes ago. The visible part of the carbon has a diameter of about 55 mm. There is then a recess onto which the rubber hose fits. I am estimating that the diameter of this part is 50 mm/ 2inches. I think the diameter of my stern tube is 1 3/4 inches, and it is visibly smaller than the carbon end. The shaft is 1 inch. Both hose clips sit on the carbon as far as I can tell but little of the carbon protrudes beyond the second one.

I remember studying the PSS parts list when you first reported this problem. I do not recall ever seeing any rubber sleeves and at the time was impressed by the huge range of sizes that were available to fit any stern tube and shaft combination. Not all carbons were recessed, some in which both ends were the same size having a collar to prevent the hose from being pushed on too far. It does seem possible that what you have is a mixture of incorrect sizes that have been cobbled together to fit. I cannot explain why the manufacturers would not offer this as an explanation.

 

[doug748]

I remember studying the PSS parts list when you first reported this problem. I do not recall ever seeing any rubber sleeves and at the time was impressed by the huge range of sizes that were available to fit any stern tube and shaft combination. Not all carbons were recessed, some in which both ends were the same size having a collar to prevent the hose from being pushed on too far. It does seem possible that what you have is a mixture of incorrect sizes that have been cobbled together to fit. I cannot explain why the manufacturers would not offer this as an explanation.

Yes.

Mine came boxed up from the factory. I still have part of the packaging..

So we can assume that in the UK, at that time (5 years ago), the common sizes (at least) came in that manner. There may have been a change of policy, it may be different in the East, who can tell.

 

[Squeaky]

1. Not on the carbon end of any PSS seal I've ever seen.
2. I don't know. Bodged on by the retailer to make up a seal from bits and pieces maybe?
3. As far as I know, it's not a standard piece.
4. No idea.
5. You've made your own mind up about that.
6. Ideally, yes, but the installer should also confirm they are correct before fitting.
Regardless, both you and your yard failed to heed the instructions when fitting the seals. Having checked, they explicitly say that the fitting of the carbon to the bellows must be checked to ensure that both hose clips are securing one to the other correctly. There's even a diagram to show what this means.
Anyway, you're determined to make the facts fit your agenda, so I'm wasting my time pointing out the obvious failings in the installation process yet again.

Good afternoon:

Thank you for confirming my opinion about the components that I was provided.

I am sorry that you cannot now admit that I was entitled to be supplied with components that were original and designed to provide the service which it was intended.

I guess you and PYI/Seaview have the same reaction and find it difficult to accept that I was sent incorrect components and would prefer to pass the blame for these catastrophic failures on anyone other than the manufactures or suppliers.

All it would have taken at the time was a message from Seaview, after their discussion with Deka Marine in Dec 2012, advising that a mistake had been made in the stockroom in Istanbul however rather than explain what happened or admit a mistake, in the best "avoid any responsibility" fashion, they procrastinated, created "red herrings" and did everything possible to make my report go away.

People like this should not be trusted to provide such important safety equipment as shaft seals.

I am still confused as to where the rubber spacer came from as it doesn't appear to be part of the normal components provided by PYI or Seaview. If purchasing a PSS seal in future, especially from Deka Marina, make sure that there is no rubber spacer as it is not part of the normal components

Anyway, you're determined to make the facts fit your agenda, so I'm wasting my time pointing out the obvious failings in the installation process yet again. And you, sir, seem determined to protect the good name of PYI and Seaview regardless of the fact that they made a mistake in supplying incorrect components and refused to admit it. I know, I know anyone else is to blame as long as their good name is not besmirched.

Cheers

Squeaky

 

[Squeaky]

It does seem possible that what you have is a mixture of incorrect sizes that have been cobbled together to fit. I cannot explain why the manufacturers would not offer this as an explanation.

Good afternoon:
Thanks very much for your efforts in clarifying the issue concerning the seals I was sold. My installation looked very similar to yours except that there was a rubber spacer and smaller shorter carbon piece which means it did not seat fully into the bellows.

The failure or refusal of Seaview and later PYI to explain what went wrong is one of the most annoying parts of this snafu and leaves a dirty taste in my mouth at the mention of PSS seals, PYI or Seaview.

Those who continue to support them regardless of the evidence are welcome to do so and I hope their faith in the integrity of PYI and Seaview is rewarded.

Cheers

Squeaky

 

[Heckler]

Good afternoon:
Thanks very much for your efforts in clarifying the issue concerning the seals I was sold. My installation looked very similar to yours except that there was a rubber spacer and smaller shorter carbon piece which means it did not seat fully into the bellows.

The failure or refusal of Seaview and later PYI to explain what went wrong is one of the most annoying parts of this snafu and leaves a dirty taste in my mouth at the mention of PSS seals, PYI or Seaview.

Those who continue to support them regardless of the evidence are welcome to do so and I hope their faith in the integrity of PYI and Seaview is rewarded.

Cheers

Squeaky

You really do need to get a life and move on!
Stu

 

[Squeaky]

You really do need to get a life and move on!
Stu

Good afternoon:

After you spend a night pumping your yacht having spent time and money trying to ensure it will be safe and then discover that a supposedly reputable company has provided you with kit that has been cobbled together and who then refuse to explain what went wrong you will possibly understand my position.

Several members of this forum have helped identify the problem and I am grateful for their assistance and can now quit worrying about other members experiencing the same problem especially if they don't buy from Deka Marine.

I will might someday return to liking the PSS but I will never think of PYI or Seaview except as unethical companies.

Cheers

Squeaky

 

[rogerthebodger]

As I posted on the other thread my 35 mm shaft PSS seal has a spigot length of 29 mm which looks very similar to the length in the pics posted #53. The parallel part of the bellows that fit over that spigot is 32 mm long. The total width of the 2 worm clips together is 26mm. So if the worm clips are fitted close together there should be no overlap over the inner end of the carbon seal.

My seal as said is foe a 35mm dia shaft with a 50mm stern tube, the carbon spigot is 63 mm dia and the o/d of the bellows that if over the carbon spigot is 73mm. vyv_cox says his is 1 3/4 inch stern tube with a 1 inch shaft so I think vyv_cox could estimate the carbon spigot o/d as I don't think the bellows thickness will be much different

On mine the parallel section that clamps onto the stern tube is 40mm long so the worn clips can be wider on that end and it looks like vyv_cox pic is similar.

A note about the rubber spacer that is in question is IMHO in not necessary wrong as Vetus also use a rubber spacer in their rubber exhaust outlet to allow a 50mm exhaust to be used with a 40 mm o/d exhaust tube. My exhaust is 50 mm dia so I just discarded the exter spacer. So provided the rubber spacer was fitted correctly it in its self would not cause the failure of the bellows of your seal

What is the dia of your stern tube. Is it the same as the o/d of the spacer tube as if so it looks to me at close inspection and looking at the gap between worm clip marks in you pic in post #53 that the bellows was fitted the wrong way round and having the longer bellows parallel section on the carbon seal thus allowing the worm clips to be spaced wider apart than they should be thus cutting into the bellows.

IMHO the cause of the failure was the worn clips were too widely spaced due to the longer parallel section of the bellows being fitted to the carbon seal in stead of the shorter section. The different lengths of the parallel sections of the bellows can also be seen in vyv)cox pic in post #63

Now I have tried to give a reasoned engineering analysis of what went wrong in your installation without having the failed items in my hand. As to why you supplier seemed not to be prepared to answer you in this way I can only speculate, but accusing people on this fora of being representing any of the suppliers/agents could not help. If you look at my location and the location of PYI agents it is so unlikely for me to be anything other than a happy customer.