What to do if surveyor is negligent

I am sorry if I have offended anyone especially any of the surveyors whom have posted on here in good faith. I have tried to pursue a course of action suggested but it would appear that there is no common 'best approach'. There would even appear to be some dispute regarding fibreglassing decks. Having dealt with surveyors with regard to old buildings for most of my working life I fully understand this position and know that much of what is said is very subjective and particular.

The boat was surveyed some months ago but has lain inside in a boat shed being worked on for all bar 5 days since. It is perfectly clear that the deck has had no opportunity to rot inside, in fact I would have thought that it would have had a chance to dry out and be somewhat firmer.

The situation has got somewhat worse as I spoke with the boat yard this afternoon and the deck beams were not just rotten but 2 were cracked. which should have been even more obvious I think especially if he had walked on the deck or looked up inside. It is a good job that the weather was benign when we sailed from Lowestoft as if we had to go on deck to anchor etc. and the deck gave way I might have ended up in the drink, then where would his precious PI be then. I am sorry if I appear annoyed but I am very! and it is not now 27 forumites but 33 who have showed a lack of appreciation of their surveyors efforts, in just a few days there seems to be a problem if only one of perception.
I was present for about half of the survey, 30/40 mins and at no time did he do anything but look and point - no knocking or using of meters or even actually going on the boat at all, he spent most of his time chatting to me about the boat. He certainly didnot take any pictures to my knowledge. The only ones that he provided in the report were those that he had taken previously. Swmbo says she felt that we were not welcome at the survey although I did not feel this but then I am fairly thick skinned.

I am certainly not seeking redress for the total price on our purchase but for the repair of the front deck and it appears both gunwhales either side of the wheel shelter. I have accepted the advice of the boatyard regarding the apron and the breast hook was already noted but its position was wrongly noted.

We are still totally committed to the project as we think it is a great boat and I am sure that whatever the outcome of this little setback we shall have lots of fun 'mudplugging' around the East Coast and going back to Dunkirk for the 75th in 2015 and yes it will be done by then :)
I would post some pictures if I knew how.

If you think I am being somewhat sanguine you should try restoring a 72' riveted steel working boat, this is nothing by comparison but then I know about metal.
 
I have approached the surveyor and I thought I had posted his response which was basically "nothing to do with me guv". Of course I will not approach any further action in an aggressive manner but it appear that I am not alone which makes me even more annoyed as there is an itch that is not being scratched.
The boatyard will support me in my action if any btw despite it causing them a lot of grief I expect.
 
Paddingtonbear said:
I was present for about half of the survey, 30/40 mins and at no time did he do anything but look and point - no knocking or using of meters or even actually going on the boat at all, he spent most of his time chatting to me about the boat. He certainly didnot take any pictures to my knowledge. The only ones that he provided in the report were those that he had taken previously.
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This sounds extraordinary.

Although I agree with others advising you to stay calm; I really think you ought to do some quiet digging into this surveyor's qualifications and background.

I fear you may find that he is not a member of a professional organisation, does not carry any PI and you are facing a very uphill climb for any form of compensation.
 
Paddington Bear, lots of good information there, if you can write it up in even more detail, for the future case, what was said, who by, times dates etc, while its still fresh in your mind, the case could drag on for a long time. Get lots of photographs, and see if you can find any you took when you got your boat, or brokers photographs, perhaps the boat yard took photos of their progress, make a file, dont leave out any detail, however trivial it may seem now.

You have been let down, I am a boat owner and know how gutted you must be, but you must approach this calmly and rationally, follow things through systematically, keep notes, and good luck. By the way, I wasnt personally offended, just trying to give you some good advice.
 
He appears to be YDSA and IIDS whatever that is and has a very glitzy web site, all dinner jacket and no dinner perhaps :). I have no doubt that he is as he says he is and he has the required insurance. Thank you to you all for your very helpful comments.
 
if half the survey takes "30/40 minutes", and during that time the OP did not see any physical testing, then it seems probable that the survey report relied on the material from an earlier assessment. 30 to 40 minutes work on the last boat I had surveyed took the chap about a quarter the length of a 36ft boat on one side with his little hammer.

It would be interesting to get hold of the previous survey report and compare them.
 
Paddingtonbear said:
I was present for about half of the survey, 30/40 mins and at no time did he do anything but look and point - no knocking or using of meters or even actually going on the boat at all, he spent most of his time chatting to me about the boat. He certainly did not take any pictures to my knowledge.
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That's not right at all.
 
Crissie and jonic, (posts 38 and 39)

Thank you for your examples, useful stuff for the OP which address my concerns at post 37. I comment no further as I don't want to divert the thread into a land of unnecessary and largely hypothetical cases.
 
clyst said:
thats a bold statement . What's not right ?
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No tap testing or moisture readings.

Most boats I sell are surveyed over a full day at least and often over two days.

I used to be skeptical of tap testing until a surveyor took me through it and showed how they feel with the other hand against the hull at the same time.

Here is some interesting video (boat now sold so not an ad)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hi4aA3ehHI
 
I have been watching this thread with interest as it has developed and it does appear that, if the process of survey was as suggested there was a lot left of the imagination regarding the amount of time spent doing the inspection and some of the methods of testing. It is not necessarily the case that the longer the survey takes the better the survey will be but naturally, it does take a minimum time to inspect all of the areas required. Perhaps more importantly, particularly with timber, it is necessary to be able to understand what you have seen.

In this case, on the little information that is available, it does seem that the surveyor had not fully physically tested the structure with all of the methods generally used but there might be some doubt as to understanding what some of the testing may have revealed. Unfortunately it is impossible to judge whether a surveyor is going to do a good job until the vessel has been surveyed and, then, in most cases this is too late.

Although this may not help the present situation, in future situations perhaps using a surveyor who has been recommended by owners of vessels similar to the one in question would be a good start however, this is not always a guarantee. I believe it would always be useful to see a sample survey of a similar vessel carried out by that particular surveyor.

A useful report should show the method of inspection with respect to hammer testing, moisture readings etc. the findings of these tests and an explanation of their relevance in all cases. This testing where ever it has been carried out should accompany any narrative on the description and method of inspection in all parts of the vessel where appropriate.

The sample survey will also reflect some of the surveyor’s knowledge hopefully with explanations on methods of repair and reinstatements. I would think that if this information is missing then this would leave to some doubt about their abilities and knowledge and then it would be important to discuss these matters with any surveyor prior to commissioning.

The other benefit of seeing a sample survey it is so you can see what you are getting for your money. If the survey was only nine or ten pages long and it was several hundreds of pounds you might want to rethink. I cannot speak for other surveyors but I have seen sample surveys on surveyor websites but not many. However, that should not stop any surveyor submitting a potential client with a sample survey by E mail as, this is a fairly easy thing to arrange without compromising any confidentiality issues.

John Lilley
 
This post by John raises several important issues. The main one is the whole question of how you choose and instruct a surveyor. In my case I was returning to lumpy water after over 30 years away and so I had no contacts especially amongst fellow boaters and in any event my area of search meant that even if I did it was unlikely that anyone could recommend a surveyor in the area once I had found a boat, so it was largely down to chance whether I could find a suitable surveyor. The brokers had a list but surely you don't necessarily want a surveyor who is 'known' to the brokers? I had a great difficulty is finding a suitable surveyor despite intensive searching on the internet as all their information seemed almost identical and so it was largely all down luck and to who could do it when I was available. My chosen 'surveyor' had all sorts of info. on his website including a list of what he did for a Pre-Purchase survey but not how. As he was a former shipwright I had every confidence that he both knew the theory but also knew about the practicalities of any repairs. This relationship relies heavily upon luck and trust as it is not everyday that you buy a boat, although strangely we now own three:confused:. There seems to be quite a problem with dissatisfaction with surveys and John suggestion of a sort of 'standard' format or possibly a proforma containing not only the what but the how would at least create some sort of level playing field and give the client a yardstick to judge performance on the day.

For those kind folks that are still interested I will be emailing my surveyor with some of the thoughts contained in this thread asking for his comments. I will also be posting the email for you comments. Thanks again to you all.
 
Paddingtonbear said:
The brokers had a list but surely you don't necessarily want a surveyor who is 'known' to the brokers?

There seems to be quite a problem with dissatisfaction with surveys and John suggestion of a sort of 'standard' format or possibly a proforma containing not only the what but the how would at least create some sort of level playing field and give the client a yardstick to judge performance on the day.
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I quite agree. I went to some lengths to find a surveyor who was not local so that my broker knew him, but was not so far away that his charges for travel were going to up the price too much.

What ever the real situation, there is something wrong with the perception of surveyors and the combination of brokers, surveyors and boatyards. As a customer I'd not be happy if a broker greeted my surveyor as a great friend. Having said that my limited experience of surveyors has been entirely positive.

My "rules", if I had any, would be:

Don't use a surveyor who is local or recommended by either a broker or boatyard.
Don't use a surveyor who has previously surveyed the same boat.
Do use a surveyor who is criticised by either the broker or a boatyard.
 
I made the big mistake I think of choosing a surveyor that had previously surveyed the boat. He did it when the vendor bought it and so on reflection he might have had a conflict of interest. It would not be so bad but I only really had a survey to satisfy the demands of an insurance company so I could sail it round to the yard. I wish I had had it delivered to the boatyard by road, it would have saved a lot of agro.
 
Paddingtonbear said:
I made the big mistake I think of choosing a surveyor that had previously surveyed the boat. He did it when the vendor bought it and so on reflection he might have had a conflict of interest. It would not be so bad but I only really had a survey to satisfy the demands of an insurance company so I could sail it round to the yard. I wish I had had it delivered to the boatyard by road, it would have saved a lot of agro.
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I am sure that the surveyors who have contributed to this thread would assert that it should not be so and that as the paying customer you should receive a thorough and professionally objective report. Ideally you should be able to use one who is both indebted to and related to any one of the other parties involved and it should make no difference. In your case, however, this seems not to have happened given what you have described.
 
Excellent Video

jonic said:
No tap testing or moisture readings.

Most boats I sell are surveyed over a full day at least and often over two days.

I used to be skeptical of tap testing until a surveyor took me through it and showed how they feel with the other hand against the hull at the same time.

Here is some interesting video (boat now sold so not an ad)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hi4aA3ehHI
Click to expand...

Thanks John for posting this - it was most informative

I just wonder, in view of the other posts, if the professional bodies should have this sort of video on their websites - so that people needing a surey would know what to expect.

I for one was fortunate in finding
a) a surveyor that was recommended by a friend
b) another friend gave me an example of another survey report to compare against and
c) my surveyor explained what he was going to do and that he actually didn't want me there whilst he was doing the ( 6 hour ) survey as it would distract him. He was happy for me to arrive at the end and he would explain his findings.
 
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