What to buy Itama 38/45 and similar

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Nikolaj

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Hi,

I grew up around boats smaller and bigger (from less than 20ft to more than 150ft) and as we have a new home of the south of France we are planning to buy a boat. I myself will be a first time buyer and got some recommendations from friends and family. What I was looking at is a Itama 38 or 45 (due to its beautiful lines and deep v hull) but saw that there are similar boat which are newer or much cheaper. My budget is around 100-200k€ to buy the boat and another 20-30k€ to maintain it. Could you pleas tell me what other boat in this price range are worth looking at and why are there such massive price differences form similar boat from different brands :)
 
Nikolaj said:
Hi,

I grew up around boats smaller and bigger (from less than 20ft to more than 150ft) and as we have a new home of the south of France we are planning to buy a boat. I myself will be a first time buyer and got some recommendations from friends and family. What I was looking at is a Itama 38 or 45 (due to its beautiful lines and deep v hull) but saw that there are similar boat which are newer or much cheaper. My budget is around 100-200k€ to buy the boat and another 20-30k€ to maintain it. Could you pleas tell me what other boat in this price range are worth looking at and why are there such massive price differences form similar boat from different brands :)
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Hi, I’m sure that if you put this post on the Motorboat forum you will get a lot of responses ??
 
If you are into the deep V seakeeping thing basically for the Med you have hit the bulls eye .
Magnums maybe but they come a little spartan and mostly with Arnesons .

To answer your differences Q the best way to tackle this Itama history .2004 Mario Amarti ( founder ) sold the company.
The pre 2004 38 s are from that generation. CAT 3208 powered straight shafts .A wide decade of production with a wide price band €80-€160 .A lot refurbished .
Infact the old factory on the Taber in Roma re invented it self refurbing Itama as well as cloning under the XL brand .XL yachts .

Ferretti group under Marco Cassali redesigned the 38 , around 2005 renaming it the 40 bringing the style more up to date with a 22 degree dead-rise a true deep V .MAN 450s .Theses go for around €200 K maybe a bit less depends on spec and condition.
The 450s adequate good for mid twenty knot cruise , later ones updated to Cummings 550, Then reworked again to the 45.
The 45 s ( Ferretti ) is the late edition with a walk through pantograph central door to the bow area .For a 30 knot cruise all day .
New about €750 K .Basically the same hull the 40 and 45 / 45 s

Theses are narrow beam relatively to the Amarti boats 45 .
The 38 , 40 and 45 s are under 4 m beam iirc around 3.8 M ?

Amarti did a 45 in the 90 s with a 4.5 M beam and various engines up to 750 Hp .
He also did a 46 with either twin MAN 800 Hp / MTU 765 Hp a three cabin boat with a 4.4 M beam .Both V 8 s .From about 96 to 2001 ish a lot built it was popular.
Also a narrower version 2 cabin tilted the 42 which has a 23 degree deadrise with 700 Hp .Ferretti post 2004 renamed this the 48 , same hull and MAN supplied then the I6 in 730 Hp .Theses were from 2001 to 2005 about 21 built I have one .4.2 beam

All the Amarti above are fourteen meters point something but under 15 m .It’s just the 3 beams that differ indeed the hulls differ . 4.5/4.4 / 4.2

To confuse matters worse he actually sold out to Bulgari the luxury products maker first then Bulgari after about 18 months offloaded to Ferretti .
During this time they did do a new 15 m called the 50 .
Ferretti did a 55 which morphed into the 62 .
Then a 62 then the 75 about 2008.
Currently they do the 45 s ,62 , 75 .Three .

Its all gets terribly confusing as Amarti did a 54/56 / 60 with V12 MANs .Forty knot boats btw .
The current 62 is a forty knot boat I saw 42 on a test 1/4 tanks but only 35 hrs old .

Reason is basically they all look the same due to the classic beautiful timeless lines .

Buy one on running costs not age .In other words which one cabin space wise and size wise fits your anticipated berth and other running costs .As said there is huge refurb after market up grade business out there .
Italy Roma / Naples is where most can be found .

They are well made excellently engineered Years 2005/2008 were a bit sticky quality wise as the production facility was moved about .Now they are all made in Forli on the Pershing line .
45
 
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Thank you Portifino for the great comprehensive answer! I will tomorrow analyze it and start looking for vessels. It will be used as a day boat cabin space etc is not that important :)
 
Hi and Portofino did a nice answer.
The 46 presented in 1995 and was an evolution of the 45 (extended forward) which was launched in late 85.
The 46 had the helm station moved to port side from starboard and offered an exterior galley behind the helm station, also the third aft cabin was larger had two bunk berths.
Model was also renamed as 50 in 2003/4 Bulgari ownership of the company. The model was the same accept for the last four build units made with a rounded windshield.

Under Bulgari the 38 was renamed as 40, new round windshield, and new cockpit design with sun-pad and C-shaped dinette.

A model in between the 38 and 46 which came out in 2000 was also the 42 renamed as 48 in the Bulgari era. 42/48 are a bit hard to come by since they are the last project of Amati.
The 42/48 is a really the best of both World offering cruiser accommodation, for a cruise while still not feeling huge as the 46/50.

The FG era Marco Casali dseigned models are a bit different since they use Vee-drives. The Forty which became 45 was the model replacing the 38. It was not its evolution though as she is wider and bigger, 45 feet over-all but much smaller then the old 45 which is in fact 15 meters overall.

As alternatives to Itama, you can look at XL Marine, Tornado, Mig, Italcraft, and the Rizzardi CR Top Line models with emphasis on the 50 model.
 
petem said:
Or forget all of that deep V nonsense and go mainstream - Sunseeker Superhawk 34 or (ducks for cover) an Axopar with outboards (a lot simpler and cheaper to run than an Itama).
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I could from a certain PoV accept the Hawk 34 (it was never named a Superhawk, that was a 40 with Trimax fixed drives). If you like the styling and want stern drives....
But an Axopar. Really????
You could suggest a much better CC then that one....
 
Thank you PowerYachtBlog for the information. I’ll look at the other boat you recommend. The 42 on the market are well priced :) I’ll look into that for sure :)

Petem, I not really a fan of the sunseeker design and the Axopar is a different class. The Itama and some other boats proposed by PowerYachtBlog are timeless, cool and sexy.
 
Clue for me was in two parts of the OP s post #1
1- “ South of France “
2- recommendations of friends and family “


The boggo medium V s so I found out often end up bumpy rides when the wind / wave get up .I know from personal experience.
Not just owning one but observing others .St Trop peninsula a typical example of afternoon seas , that were calm in the morning run out and zero adverse weather forecast .

Style , pace , grace , sophistication , beauty is king on the Cote d Azur land sea and air everywhere.
So it had to look the part as well as do the business. Many other glamorous Med locations could be substituted .

Some U.K. mud river berths , tidal restrictions and all that , wrap up covering your body , boating in doom / gloom grey clouds ,cold rain , sand banks emerging at low water , then all this falls away as survival and endurance boating take over .
You can’t imho mix the U.K. boat ( N EU for that matter ) buying decisions and the classy Med decisions on the same menu .

Easily done thought, to mix up hats :D.

2- Yup the sunsseker dealer in the Cd A , the Fairline dealer ( and gen broker ) put me on to the deep V thingy .
This is after while phishing for a change I put up the whole seekeeping thingy .This is after test driving there prospects they put up .Infact only passing across the bay of Cannes and around the Cap D Antibes as I said when it cuts up in the afternoons .Being forced to slow to mitigate against slamming , dropping off the plane into then KAD 300 superchargers territory-urgh !

The clincher was a Rivarama 44 slicing past up on the way back .It was planing seemed dead level cutting right through while we had to slow and be bounced about in the sunseeker .

Next day I was ( By car ) in Monaco .This is after mentioning this apparent performance advantage to the dealers in la Nap ,
They suggested Itama .Basically I has never really heard of them , seen a few in St Tropez for charter all lined up .
In Monaco the sales guy , they had a 44 out on the dock laid it all out .We went over to the hull and words like “ deadrise “ “ deep V “ even shaft drive in terms of mid mounting as far as you can the motors in the middle etc etc .

As first glance a hulls a hull they are all V s so what I thought.Boat show trends in the U.K. cover up , curtain the hulls so they can’t be that important?

The cabin arrangements on the 44 were not suitable.
Itama is what the guy recommended .
Next day we drive back across to st Tropez to SunCap yachts who do the charters / brokers in st Trop .
Again ” recommendation “ .
By now any lingering ties to the UK big three were severed .The SS Hawks too narrow , stern drives and for me lacking sufficient accommodation.
Christoph ( SunCap ) met us at a hanger in Cogolin middle of August .
Inside was a Aladins cave of big boys toys in storage .Two copters , 5 Harley Davidsons , 2 Pershings , and 3 Itama s + a few more boats .We came to view a Itama 46 called SVEN .Owned by a Scando villa owner but he was ill and boat was stored for the past 3 seasons .It needed re commissioning I was quoted €5 K per engine . Then a 54 with V12 s , then a nearly new 40 .

Wife immediately liked all three !
Yippe thank god she was on board . (y)
They all seemed massive compared to our SS Porto 35 ( actually 37 ft 11.7m but with a 3.55 m beam ) .
The engines frightened me huge MANs every thing was huge , props , strainers, cleats etc etc .
We could see the hull forms the V s .
Fancying a rooster tail we went on the two Pershings, I think one was a 52 and the other I can’t remember ?
Christoph said they were hard work to maintain, hard on the engines and harder to get set up .Also the V was shallower .
The two boat dealers in la Nap and the Monaco marine ( Riva guy ) did not mention Pershings , it’s just there were two there in the same hanger .
Aside wife loved the white interior of the Amarti Itama , ie no high gloss cherry varnish effect to keep finger marks off .:D

So there we are the trade know what all this “deep V nonsense” ……I was recommended .

Pushed away from mainstream by beloved Sunseekers et al .

Windy was another brand one of them the Fairline franchise guy advised me in particular the 40 Bora as it would fit my berth @3.55 M beam .
Also when on here this forum PYB is the guy who demystified the Itama modal line up and pointed me in the direction of the 42/48 .
Another recommendation was from the Villanova bros based in Cogolin / St Tropez .They do Riviara .
Two points , do not buy a Volvo Penta engined boats .They sell them btw as well as Cummins/ CAT powered .
I met them through Ferrari owners club , not the marine side btw .He took me to one side @ Cannes and whispered in my ear the VP slag off btw .When I mentioned the word Itama ……well he couldn’t praise them enough.
This is a exhibitor at a boat show .Sort of private Ratner moment :D .
Did not want me done over with a VP powered ( late modal ) Riviara 42 or something.
I did look at the hulls V in his yard and over a coffee chatting about his Daytona , they were not as deep as the Itama .There was a 38 out to compare .


Unlike the OP “ 20 feet to 150 “ I knew zilch about mobos when I bought my first “ mainstream “ saw sunseeker adds in the sunday supplements like everyone else Pete .
 
Nikolaj said:
Thank you PowerYachtBlog for the information. I’ll look at the other boat you recommend. The 42 on the market are well priced :) I’ll look into that for sure :)

Petem, I not really a fan of the sunseeker design and the Axopar is a different class. The Itama and some other boats proposed by PowerYachtBlog are timeless, cool and sexy.
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Axopars porpoise at speed with waves .
You can’t defy the weight hanging on the stern .
Amarti Itama are all central engine mounted straight shafts .It’s hard to imagine but placing the motors on top of where the water strikes the hull means it better balances and stays more level less pitching / porpoise effect .
So what ? I hear you all yell !

It’s all about the water line length , maintaining the WL as long as poss means the front deeper , the deepest sections on any boat regardless the V hit the water and start to part the waves before the middle and worse still rear flatter .
Catch a wave crest wrong towards the rear flatter = tenancy to slam .

So in pure terms OB s and stern drives are a steps back in the overall balance side .
The balance in a bigger seas determines which part of the hull strikes first .
Deeper v up front splits / parts the waves , flatter to the rear starts to ride over = floats , lifts , drops = slams .
 
Nikolaj said:
Thank you PowerYachtBlog for the information. I’ll look at the other boat you recommend. The 42 on the market are well priced :) I’ll look into that for sure :)

Petem, I not really a fan of the sunseeker design and the Axopar is a different class. The Itama and some other boats proposed by PowerYachtBlog are timeless, cool and sexy.
Click to expand...

There is no 42 for sale. That one on MB is the one Porto bought five years ago and the broker does not want to remove it.
I had a client offer Porto much more to that and he does not want to sell. Anyways now I sold the guy a 2003 46 and he has happy to the bone with it.
Did Civitavecchia to San Felice Circeo in one meter waves in 26 knots to the nose, and he did not see the wave he would have said it was flat.
But the 46 is literally and figuratively a tank.
I have a 48 04 not officially on the market available. That is about it.
 
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petem said:
Or forget all of that deep V nonsense and go mainstream - Sunseeker Superhawk 34 or (ducks for cover) an Axopar with outboards (a lot simpler and cheaper to run than an Itama).
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I suspect the man (or woman) who starts by asking about itama's definitely does not want to go mainstream. If you want an itama you're looking for a certain image IMO, they're deliberately not wanting mainstream, they're looking for niche/boutique..

Not sure an axopar could be considered as an alternative to an itama either , completely different style of boats for different purposes, and an axopar is pretty mainstream too these days.
 
PowerYachtBlog said:
I have a 48 04 not officially on the market available. That is about it.
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Hi W, didn't you hear from that chap who has a 45 (Not sure of age, I think late 80s) that he would be interested to sell - also unofficially?
I can put in touch with him also anyone else who might be interested.
 
2014 from Sergio of Oven yachts , Napoli .
He knows everyone.Used to sell them in st Tropez before the 2008 crash .Told me delivered 40 boats .
They are all nice guys the Itama fraternity btw inc PYB on here .
 
Hey Portofino we had several Itamas in my family and that’s exactly what they say. A heavy deep boat which looks great and handles waves great!
 
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