what specifically is dangerous about out of date flares?

[Sailingsaves]

Most of us know about the tragic 2006 incident (poor packing of flare combustibles I believe) of an in date white flare.

And as we have no alternative, lasers all seem no good, has anyone EXPERIENCED bad affects of out of date flares?

If so what was the affect and do you know the cause?

I know of no injuries caused by out of date flares. I have seen an out of date para flare launch but chute failed to deploy. I have seen out of date red flares burn for less than prescribed time. I always used to keep my flares really dry and look after them and renew at exp date, but keep old ones 'just in case' I ran out of the new ones during an emergency.

Anyone know of any incidents?

 

[LittleSister]

Perhaps the greatest danger is internet 'flaming' when you mention them! ;-)

Clearly as time goes on there is more chance of a dangerous misfire. However, the more likely 'failure' is a reduction in the duration and quality (colour and brightness) of the flare.

I've let off flares of considerable antiquity (not that I'm suggesting anyone else does). They all worked fine, but some of the reds were a bit pink. I wasn't able to time them to check whether they still met the minimum design duration, but all lasted what seemed a very good amount of time.

I also have a complete set of 'in date' flares, and have the previous set aboard as spares (if I'm in trouble I don't want to run out).

 

[Rigger Mortice]

I've set off flares that were a few years beyond date. Well, I've set some off. Some haven't worked. Nothing, Zilch, dead as the proverbial.

 

[causeway]

We tested some at a YachtMaster class and nearly all the well out of date ones were duff.

 

[johnalison]

I always have a set of in-date flares but, like many people, keep just out of date flares as spare, exceptin France, when they are well hidden. As well as failing to fire, I believe the main problems with old flares are failure to display the red colour adequately, and a tendency to produce a lot of dross, which could be a problem if set off in an inflatable or life raft.

 

[sailorman]

We tested some at a YachtMaster class and nearly all the well out of date ones were duff.

And the dates were pls

 

[VicMallows]

Clearly as time goes on there is more chance of a dangerous misfire.

Why do you say it is CLEAR? ... have you any evidence of this? (or of the misfire statistics for in-date flares?).

(Personally I consider flares outdated anyway and will not carry them unless compelled to by regulation of a country I am visiting).

 

[l'escargot]

I don't think they become dangerous in themselves unless they deteriorate to the stage that the casings rot or firing mechanisms have become faulty and even then they are generally damp so I would think they are basically inert.

I took some off the a boat for someone a few years back that were from the early 80s. They had thin metal cases that had corroded in places and were leaking some unknown liquid - I was a bit cautious with them but only because I had never seen anything similar before. The police took them for disposal with no concern though.

The only incident that I have heard of are the ones that went off in the back of a rubbish truck, in Lymington I think, a few years ago. Presumably they were out of date if they'd been chucked out.

 

[Sailingsaves]

As I suspected, but still not conclusive of course, it may not be dangerous to carry out of date flares, they just may not work.

I don't actually know what is in them or their construction and there is no way I'm going to cut one open, so unable to decide whether they are safe, but statistically so far it seems they may be safe.

 

[fishermantwo]

Years ago when I was navy aircrew I was on a survival course in an area that was well used. One of my mates was down in a valley a few hundred yards away and discovered a WW2 red flare. Naturally he pulled the tag. It was a windless early morning and the valley soon filled with bright red smoke. He could not breath or see and came rushing up the slope through the scrub. Flare was 30 years old then.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

(Personally I consider flares outdated anyway and will not carry them unless compelled to by regulation of a country I am visiting).

There's some sense in that and I'm thinking of dumping mine when they become time expired. I don't know how many times they have actually been used to save lives but I suspect that it is very rare.

 

[Avocet]

I let off some red hand-helds that were about 10 years out of date. All worked but were a bit pink.

 

[ridgy]

Flares are history.
A PLB is about the same price as an offshore flare pack, last twice as long, and vastly more likely to produce a response.

 

[jwilson]

Flares are history.
A PLB is about the same price as an offshore flare pack, last twice as long, and vastly more likely to produce a response.

Having used a dozen red flares when in clear sight of two trawlers (badly injured person on board), light winds, engine and almost all electronics dead, and had no response I tend to agree, except that flares are still good for the final home-in bit of a rescue.

On out of date flares, have fired them on Nov 5th (at an inshore lifeboat station, so we knew which were ours and not to launch). Most worked fine, the odd VERY old one just didn't work. From memory the non-workers were 20 odd years old.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Flares are history.
A PLB is about the same price as an offshore flare pack, last twice as long, and vastly more likely to produce a response.

I tend to agree but would not assign then to the bin yet. I believe that they still have a place in coastal sailing as a very recognisable distress signal to the general population e.g. the dog walker on the beach.

All out of date flares that I have set off have worked but they were only 5 years out of date.

 

[Iliade]

Don't the French get all uppity if we don't carry in date flares?

 

[VicMallows]

They had thin metal cases that had corroded in places and were leaking some unknown liquid - I was a bit cautious with them but only because I had never seen anything similar before.

I had some like that until last year when I disposed of them at a flare amnesty. The bomb squad guy did single them out from my other 'normal' flares and put them in a separate container! (They were just out of date when I bought them cheap at a Chichester chandlery in 1986 )

 

[causeway]

And the dates were pls

can't remember but think they were from the 90's there were several different types too. I didn't record them all as I didn't know there was going to be a quiz.

 

[KellysEye]

>Clearly as time goes on there is more chance of a dangerous misfire.
>>Why do you say it is CLEAR? ... have you any evidence of this? (or of the misfire statistics for in-date flares?).

There was a very recent thread about out if date flares and this is what I said. In Lagos, Portugal about 20 cruisers set off expired flares under the supervision of the Marine Police. One parachute flare exlpoded in a cruiser's hand and another went off horizontally, fortunately not aimed at us. I would strongly suggest nobody fires out of date flares, the risk is not high but not worth it.

On the in date flare front I used to use the big Pains Wessex smokes for skydiving demo jumps strapped on my ankle, one in date didn't fire. Rare but it does happen.

 

[Lightning]

I once enquired of someone who worked in manufacturing military flares, why flares had a time expiry.

The answer was that the propellant in the flare is compacted in to a tablet which, when ignited, burns in a controlled way.

Over time, if the flare is subject to vibrations / knocks etc. the tablet of propellant can break-up and become powder. When ignited, instead of burning, this powder then explodes, with consequential results.

Seemed like quite a plausible explanation.