what specifically is dangerous about out of date flares?

[Koeketiene]

what specifically is dangerous about out of date flares?

Would almost be persuaded that the expiry date is nothing more than a clever marketing ploy.

Last Guy Fawkes night I set off a couple of handheld ones (expired end 2007) - both were fine.
Similarly, let off 2 parachute ones from the same batch on New Years eve. Again both were fine.

This year, plan to dispose of my coastal set (expired end 2010) in a similar manner.

 

[CFarr]

A friend of mine had cause to use an out of date hand held flare on the delivery trip of his new to him yacht due to radio and engine failure.
The flare ignited and then a flame burst though the case right where his hand was holding it. very nasty burns to the fingers that needed hospital treatment.

I would seriously think twice about using them. I don't know exactly how out of date they were but it was less than 5 years.

 

[alanch]

Many many years ago, I had a Merchant Navy parachute flare which was 2 years out of date. We decided to set it off on the beach as a test, with the prior knowledge of the CG. Pointed it skyward and pulled trigger. Nothing except a wisp of smoke coming from the base. So, the question now was what to do with it! Drop it and run? Throw it? I gently lowered it to the beach, but it fired just as I was about to set it down, and it set off horizontally 6 feet above the beach, before smacking down in a shower of flame and pebbles. Luckily there was no body around. Use at your peril!

As for setting them off on Nov 5th, the local port VTS centre and therefore the CG, are plagued every year with people doing just that, which invariably means the local Lifeboat are sent out on wild goose chases.

 

[prv]

The flare ignited and then a flame burst though the case right where his hand was holding it.

That's interesting. My new ones are telescopic, with the flare material in a metal tube that slides inside a plastic tube. Before use you extend it so that the metal tube is sticking out free and the end of the plastic tube you hold has nothing inside it.

My old flares were not telescopic, but they had a fixed hollow plastic handle on the end.

I can't imagine a flare that burns inside a part that you hold. Even if it doesn't fail and actually emit flames through the side, it's still going to get too hot to hold.

Nevertheless, I have a pair of leather gloves packed with the flares.

Pete

 

[CFarr]

That's interesting. My new ones are telescopic, with the flare material in a metal tube that slides inside a plastic tube. Before use you extend it so that the metal tube is sticking out free and the end of the plastic tube you hold has nothing inside it.

My old flares were not telescopic, but they had a fixed hollow plastic handle on the end.

I can't imagine a flare that burns inside a part that you hold. Even if it doesn't fail and actually emit flames through the side, it's still going to get too hot to hold.

Nevertheless, I have a pair of leather gloves packed with the flares.

Pete

Actually, the more I've thought about that since posting (it was a while ago and we've not talked about it since) I think it burnt through a side wall and quickly dripped or ran down onto his fingers.
My main point stands though, they're not reliable.

 

[Koeketiene]

As for setting them off on Nov 5th, the local port VTS centre and therefore the CG, are plagued every year with people doing just that, which invariably means the local Lifeboat are sent out on wild goose chases.

In Hemel Hempstead

 

[prv]

I think it burnt through a side wall and quickly dripped or ran down onto his fingers.

I see, yep, sounds more plausible. Nasty, too. Definitely keeping those gloves to hand!

Overall I still reckon the odds of dangerous failure are low, and the potential benefits are worth it, but that's each skipper's decision to make.

Pete

 

[Biggles Wader]

In Hemel Hempstead

You can get in a lot of trouble on the Grand Union Canal.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

We tested some at a YachtMaster class and nearly all the well out of date ones were duff.

Interesting. Maybe cheap imported ones? Anyway we had a riotous new years eve party down at the sailing club a decade or more back and seeing the ships in the dock letting off flares we decided to have a go too. The oldest were from the 60s but all were way out of date. Cannot comment on their duration but the only ones that didnt work out of maybe 30 or more were the tiny ones you use in some sort of gun and are designed more as personal safety kit. We didnt fire parachute flares for obvious reasons.

 

[Tidewaiter2]

I had some like that until last year when I disposed of them at a flare amnesty. The bomb squad guy did single them out from my other 'normal' flares and put them in a separate container! (They were just out of date when I bought them cheap at a Chichester chandlery in 1986 )

Ah, so it was you, Vic, thats why they put Lorna in the Zoot and Scoot Suit then
Currently on Texel, weather has been crepe, hope to make Terschelling tomorrow, if the F6/7 ease up for a day, while the plug is in!
And Yes, all our flares are in date

 

[KellysEye]

>The flare ignited and then a flame burst though the case right where his hand was holding it. very nasty burns to the fingers that needed hospital treatment.

I forgot to mention that when we were firing out of date flares in Portugal we were all wearing gloves so when the parachute flare exploded the cruiser wasn't burnt. It's not a bad idea to wear gloves if you have to fire a hand flare in particular they get hot, I would use gloves for any flare. When I was using the big Pains Wessex flares skydiving and strapped to my ankle I wore a fireproof sock.

 

[prv]

When I was using the big Pains Wessex flares skydiving and strapped to my ankle I wore a fireproof sock.

Sounds very sensible - but I can't help wondering who manufactures fireproof socks, and why!

Pete

 

[markhomer]

to help your bewilderment may i suggest there are prudent manufactures who you could google , making fireproof socks for firefighters , race car drivers , skydivers ............ as for why dont think its that hard to work out

 

[Biggles Wader]

Sounds very sensible - but I can't help wondering who manufactures fireproof socks, and why!

Pete

Maybe for those Figian fire walkers

 

[KellysEye]

>but I can't help wondering who manufactures fireproof socks, and why!


Everything racing drivers wear is fireproof have a look here http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/fireproof-socks

 

[michael_w]

There's some sense in that and I'm thinking of dumping mine when they become time expired. I don't know how many times they have actually been used to save lives but I suspect that it is very rare.

I have been involved in a rescue near the Nab Tower, hand held flares were vital in finding the casualty (in a liferaft) against the background of the Pompey shore lights. They may be old fashioned, expensive and un-trendy, but they work.

 

[Resolution]

I have posted this before, but maybe if I do so again it will save someon being injured.

A couple of years ago a friend decided to clear out his old flares by letting them off at a BBQ (miles inland, no canals or rivers). Most went OK but one red parachute flare exploded DOWNwards straight between the firer's feet. Gave him a heck of a fright and scorched his tender bits en passant.

We presumed the casing must have got soggy somehow and softened up.

We won't be doing that again!

 

[rib]

why ??? you got no b---s

 

[Sailingsaves]

I once enquired of someone who worked in manufacturing military flares, why flares had a time expiry.

The answer was that the propellant in the flare is compacted in to a tablet which, when ignited, burns in a controlled way.

Over time, if the flare is subject to vibrations / knocks etc. the tablet of propellant can break-up and become powder. When ignited, instead of burning, this powder then explodes, with consequential results.

Seemed like quite a plausible explanation.

Yes, that would certainly not be a good thing and comes from a good source of info (always wondered how flares were made). Para flare exploding did not sound good either.

 

[Antony Collis]

In a way I agree that your main flair set should be in date but just expired ones could be used as a kind of training aid. I don't think anyone is prepaired for how hot they burn even though common sense says that they essentially, on fire!
Also I rotate my out of date smoke flairs into my walking equipment for when I'm in the mountains. I've watched plenty of rescue programs about helicopters searching for walkers that they just can't find. Helicopters will fire their own smoke onto the ground when coming into hover but I'd like to speed up the finding bit. I always find it strange that outdoor shops dont sell smoke flairs for this reason, mind you, they will sell you a mirror with a hole in it for signalling your rescuers!......perhaps I should put one of them on the boat.