What should I expect of my ST 1000

Chrissie

Chrissie

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Set off Sat 28th May, rather bad weather with gusts up to 37 knots that weekend, the waves coming right over my little boat, and the auto pilot gave up the ghost. Luckily by the Wednesday and Im setting off across Lyme Bay, single handed without an auto pilot, the weather had calmed down a lot. (A big thank you to Lawrence at Beta who over the phone talked me through a fuel problem and bleed, 28 miles into Lyme Bay with hardly any wind)
I bought a new ST 1000, and continued my journey West, but coming back from Dartmouth toward Swanage, with the strong winds and large swell hitting the stern, the ST 1000 decided it couldnt cope, so I ended up spending the whole 20 hours (caught out by the tide having gone so far south to avoid the Bill) hand helming.
I was all set to return the auto pilot and demand my money back, and thought I would give it another go in better weather conditions, and it worked.
My question is, given that I need an auto pilot for when the weather is horid more than when its fine, is the fact that it doesnt work in a force 6/7 mean its not fit for pupose? so Can I return it?
 
My view is that those Raymarine autopilots don't work properly. Mine doesn't work on my Contessa 26 unless the winds are very light. The thing I do not understand is why the "off course alarm" sounds when the tiller isn't pushed over as far as the autopilot could take it. If the boat is going off course, then there is no point in having the tiller central (which is what the Raymarine can do).

My solution to this is to use the Raymarine just for motoring or in very light winds. In other conditions I use a Sea Feather mechanical self steering gear - which is able to steer.

The Raymarine I'm talking about is the replacement for the one that gave up the ghost. The screws started falling out of the plastic housing of the old one (the plastic looked duff to me). It let in water, things went rapidly downhill from there.

I'm sure other people will have different experiences on different boats.
 
Chrissie said:
My question is, given that I need an auto pilot for when the weather is horid more than when its fine, is the fact that it doesnt work in a force 6/7 mean its not fit for pupose? so Can I return it?
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It might not be fit for your purpose, but that doesn't mean that it's not fit for any purpose. If the seller specifically recommended the ST1000 for your boat in those conditions you can justifiably go back and say "Oi!" but if you chose it unaided then you can't - particularly if it has now had a good thrashing.

A quick google suggests that the ST1000+ is recommended for boats up to 3,000kg and that a Contessa 26 is 2450kg. With you, equipment, food fuel and water on board you are probably well over that maximum. On the upside, long keelers don't generally twitch around as much as a deep fin design, so you might get away with it in benign conditions.

I have an old Navico 1800XL on Jumblie: also long keeled and 26' but a bit heavier at 3,000kg empty. It does beautifully in calm conditions under power, but starts to work hard with even small yawing waves hitting me. I haven't tried it in F6/7 and have no intention of doing so - I don't think it would stand a hope in hell of coping.

The wind vane (also a Sea Feather, zlod!), on the other hand, positively enjoys stronger winds.
 
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Try and get a cover made for it, but it will probably fail again, if it has failed already. Although you may think its a solid bit of kit, it doesnt really like it being wet.

after 3 seasons of st2000 failure and visits to the agents, moved onto an spx...
 
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looks like I have to keep it then and just use for light conditions, I have a wind vane system which I have never fitted, I must get on with it!
 
I have had a number of auto pilots over the years and seen a good few on mates boats. In my experience the smaller ones, Simrad TP10 and ST1000 both work OK in calm weather but the minute there are confused seas and stronger wind they won't work properly.

I ended up getting a Simrad TP32, the biggest Simrad, and that worked fine on my Macwester 30 whatever the weather. The response times are better on the bigger models and they are more powerful. I know the manufacturers sites say the smaller models work OK but I would not buy a small one. Your boat at 26ft should be easier to manage than my 30ft one. I used my TP32 on a 28ft boat where his ST2000 only worked in good weather and mine coped with everything.

The other vital thing is the electric supply to the autopilot. You need decent sized cables and your battery needs to be delivering good voltage. I would take it back if you can.
 
I would suggest the raymarine 2000 is more suitable for your yacht. I have a sabre 27 and my 2000 is now 5 years old, been out in all sorts and works pretty well with the exception of a short quartering sea where I hand steer. I also carry a spare one. If the weather looks bad, I wrap the body of the 2000 in cling film to help protect from water ingress
 
Little Five said:
I would suggest the raymarine 2000 is more suitable for your yacht. I have a sabre 27 and my 2000 is now 5 years old, been out in all sorts and works pretty well with the exception of a short quartering sea where I hand steer. I also carry a spare one. If the weather looks bad, I wrap the body of the 2000 in cling film to help protect from water ingress
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+1
The 2000 is faster to react & uses little power, no hunting from side to side, just seems to settle an dmind its own business,so mine is excellent on 25' loa.
 
I would say you are lucky (!) in the sense that you already own a windvane. Well done for clocking 400 + miles under some duress. What will definitely work in heavier- or indeed any- weather would be to attach the st1000 to the windvane top instead of the windvane's vane.
In fact on the Monitor site this mod is explained quite clearly, for example.

But you must, must make a waterproof cover, i'm afraid. At a pinch a couple of decent binbags wrapped and bungeed around it will do but, IIRC, all these units actually have a water drain hole in the bottom! Why would they fit that to a marine unit?
I have read that in the tropics, where the units get quite hot, a sudden drenching from a wave causes a temperature drop to the air inside, and water gets immediately sucked inside via the rubber seals and gaskets, hence some sort of cover makes good sense.

Also don't forget that the side loads on a Contessa 26 tiller, as you crash off a wave, are quite significant for that wee motor.

If you could swap it back to the shop as 'not what I asked for, performance-wise' for at least a 2000 one, plus cash difference, I would be doing just that, as a stand alone unit working without a windvane.
 
Chrissie said:
Set off Sat 28th May, rather bad weather with gusts up to 37 knots that weekend, the waves coming right over my little boat, and the auto pilot gave up the ghost. Luckily by the Wednesday and Im setting off across Lyme Bay, single handed without an auto pilot, the weather had calmed down a lot. (A big thank you to Lawrence at Beta who over the phone talked me through a fuel problem and bleed, 28 miles into Lyme Bay with hardly any wind)
I bought a new ST 1000, and continued my journey West, but coming back from Dartmouth toward Swanage, with the strong winds and large swell hitting the stern, the ST 1000 decided it couldnt cope, so I ended up spending the whole 20 hours (caught out by the tide having gone so far south to avoid the Bill) hand helming.
I was all set to return the auto pilot and demand my money back, and thought I would give it another go in better weather conditions, and it worked.
My question is, given that I need an auto pilot for when the weather is horid more than when its fine, is the fact that it doesnt work in a force 6/7 mean its not fit for pupose? so Can I return it?
Click to expand...

I can use the old Raymarine autohelm on most points of sail except strong wind on the quarter from astern- or dead downwind for that matter. It takes a lot of concentration to keep track of incoming waves & random gusts doing it manually. There may be some systems up to this task, but it is asking a lot of any electro mechanical device to keep you steady in those conditions. Were you sailing solo -or couldn't delegate the helming to somebody else?

Graeme
 
servo pendulum link

Chrissie said:
looks like I have to keep it then and just use for light conditions, I have a wind vane system which I have never fitted, I must get on with it!
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If the wind vane has a servo pendulum Then the st1000 could possibly be linked to the servo pendulum with a bit of thought increases the power to the rudder


Some pictures here of the idea

http://www.hydrovane.com/OurProduct.html

Lot of examples on the net
 
Chrissie said:
looks like I have to keep it then and just use for light conditions, I have a wind vane system which I have never fitted, I must get on with it!
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Yes indeed. Then you will have 2 systems, instead of having to hand steer for 20 hours next time. (or learn sheet-to-tiller arrangements).

The windvane excels in stronger winds, while the tillerpilot will excel when it is very light wind or neglible wind, and you are motoring (& making electricity).

My tillerpilot didn't like quartering winds and a 1.5 metre swell as well. It wanted/tended to surf down the waves, and try to broach, and the autopilot/ tillerpilot was a little slow in those conditions that night.

2 systems are better, more versatile and serve as a backup. Worth the effort of getting it done.
 
Hi Chrissie

First, I would say the ST1000 is too small for your boat if needed in F5 and upwards. I think it is the ST2000 has a much faster lock to lock time, which is important. I use an ST1000 on my Cornish Crabber 24ft, even though I know is it not fast enough for it when the going gets tough.

Next i would ask if you are using the custom settings when changing course. I find that i need to adjust the settings to react quicker when sailing downwind. I also think the gain has to be changed to make larger compensations when on beam reach and on the qtr. I had time i would write down the settings so i can make the changes quickly to get the right result. It does mean you have a very busy autohelm on these settings. Upwind my boat can cope with plenty of damping and low gain.

Because the Crabber rudder has no counterbalance and hangs off the long keel, I find I need to reef the main much earlier when on autohelm and accept a slower pace.

I don't bother with autotack, too unreliable. Wish I had a steer to wind set up, as i think that would be useful.

One other point, while crusing in Brittany one year, one a hot still day under engine, it was so hot that the casing exceeded the specified operating temperature and it stopped working. So I had to put a damp tea towel over it to keep is cool.

Regards and safe journey.
 
I changed from an ST1000 which didn't cope in more demanding seas to a 4000. Totally different, and useful in virtually all conditions.

It is difficult to understand the sizing chart for the different models based on weight. Perhaps they assume the smaller boats won't be in the sorts of conditions where extra grunt and reduced lock to lock time is needed. However, a small boat can be just as unbalanced as a big one, and often needs quick large reactions, and possibly more-so.
 
Chrissie said:
Set off Sat 28th May, rather bad weather with gusts up to 37 knots that weekend, the waves coming right over my little boat, and the auto pilot gave up the ghost. Luckily by the Wednesday and Im setting off across Lyme Bay, single handed without an auto pilot, the weather had calmed down a lot. (A big thank you to Lawrence at Beta who over the phone talked me through a fuel problem and bleed, 28 miles into Lyme Bay with hardly any wind)
I bought a new ST 1000, and continued my journey West, but coming back from Dartmouth toward Swanage, with the strong winds and large swell hitting the stern, the ST 1000 decided it couldnt cope, so I ended up spending the whole 20 hours (caught out by the tide having gone so far south to avoid the Bill) hand helming.
I was all set to return the auto pilot and demand my money back, and thought I would give it another go in better weather conditions, and it worked.
My question is, given that I need an auto pilot for when the weather is horid more than when its fine, is the fact that it doesnt work in a force 6/7 mean its not fit for pupose? so Can I return it?
Click to expand...

I had an ST 2000 which gave up the ghost a few weeks after the end of the warranty period. I had only used it for 2 seasons where the total time on the boat was about 2 or 3 weeks. The estimate to repair was more than the new one cost. Water had got into the circuit board. They told me I shouldn't have used it in wet conditions....
 
I've never experienced the problems others have had with (Raymarine) Autohelms. If mine packed up I'd go straight out and get the same again.

Had a ST1000 (I think) on a Hurley 22 (long fin), now a ST2000+ on our long keel 23' Samphire. Both have steered for hundreds of hours in all weathers, and generally only in conditions where I would be struggling with the tiller anyway have they been unable to get the boat back on course. I usually then just put the Autohelm on standby a moment, manually bring it back on course, and back onto Autohelm. If it keeps happpening, I take it to mean I've not got the rig balanced, I've got too much sail up, or the conditions are just too rough for the poor thing (and probably me too).

By the way, a long keeler tends to track better than a fin keeler, but it's rudder is much less efficient and also unbalanced, so once you've started to slew off course it's more work to get it back on track, I find.

A smaller boat gets knocked about by waves and swell much more than a big boat, so needs more steering, thus I'd always err on the side of getting a larger rather than smaller model Autohelm.

I do use the automatic tack function, and find it quite handy when single handing, but once through the tack always fine tune the new course to suit the conditions and boat.

I keep meaning to make a cover for the top of the Autohelm to keep the rain and spray off, but only because I've read of others' failing in wet conditions. Years have passed without it ever getting to the top of the to do list.
 
Loads of great information, thanks guys. I shall set up my wind vane and save the ST 1000 for easier weather. I will also look at the settings and learn how to change them.
 
Chrissie said:
Loads of great information, thanks guys. I shall set up my wind vane and save the ST 1000 for easier weather. I will also look at the settings and learn how to change them.
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Hi chrissie

I'd have a go at arguing an upgrade to st2000+ while you have a chance.

LittleSisters post could have been written by me.. almost every word of it!
 
The ST1000 and indeed any autopilot has a specified time for going from lock tolock and a specified thrust. If you boat reuquires quicker response or more thrust in bad weather, then the system wont work.

The likely problem is the boat size in the sense that a small boat is flighty and difficult to control in bad weather. My boat is 36 ft and fitted with a hydraulic inboard autopilot but I still would not expect it to cope with really bad weather.

You may well be able to have a legalistic argument with the seller but I doubt you will find an alternative pilot that works in all circs.
 
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