What should I buy ........?

Torbay

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We’re considering our first boat purchase and I’m hoping to pick the brains and opinions of those that can help on the forum to set us in the right direction of trying to identify suitable boats and other essentials to consider. A long post -perhaps I should split into different threads but I'll try this! Appreciate your patience.

Firstly I’ll probably take a course of action that will be considered by the majority of very sensible people to be absolutely dumb and daft. The logical first purchase should be second-hand, and I might go that route if something really good catches the eye, but to be fair it’s unlikely. What I tend to do is jump in and follow intuition. So for example I bought a car 10 years ago I couldn’t afford – logic says I shouldn’t have bought - but I love it and I’ll look after it and use it ‘til it stops. So in the long run it’s not been expensive and given lots of pleasure. I’ll probably do the same with the boat but therefore need to do as much research as I need to until I’m comfortable with the leap and then by a new boat. If all goes wrong then I’ll lose some money and this’ll upset me. But I put our hard-earned savings and some pension into peps isas and shares etc and got absolutely no joy out of seeing that shrink so boat depreciation isn’t going to be the key consideration in the decision process particularly at least I’ve sat in it and used it!

So I’m looking at some of the basic considerations. I can give some “knowns”. Anything we purchase is very very unlikely to ever sleep 6 people. It will sleep two people 99% of the time and very rarely two more. I’m really after something that will provide bags of open saloon space balanced away from cabin space. So two cabins rather than 3 I think would be perfect. The budget will probably limit me to somewhere between 38 foot and say 42 foot. I was impressed with a note in another thread, which basically said that the whole idea of boating is the journey and not the arrival and so believe that speed is secondary to say space, except when speed provides additional safety. So I think I’m looking for flybridge rather than sports cruiser.

I’m going to ensure my wife and I am properly trained and I’ll also prioritise safety gear.

What is in my medium term plan is that I’d like to be able to travel down to the med say for the spring and stay there for some time and then perhaps return back here for the summer. So I think whatever I buy should be capable of making that type of trip. What is even further in the back of my mind, is “if we really grow to love the life could we live on the boat and give up our house”? If so sometimes spending a touch more initially would stop the need for an interim upgrade later. So is a boat of this size a viable full time living option later on.

So my question is first will a boat of this size range provide me with a solution to most of these aspirations ie cross channel, Biscay, potential main residence?

Secondly what makes and models of craft should I look at. I’d prefer less boat higher quality rather than more space and less quality. In car terms I’d say merc bmw or Volvo.

Thirdly all manufacturers offer engine options. Some seem to be different engine options including surface or tunnel. The Sealine C39 offers these as options. How does one decide?

Having read these questions I realise that perhaps I should have split them into separate threads – but I’d appreciate any thoughts from others who have either “been through this” or can offer advice.
 

byron

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Comfort is of the essence. Contrary to what you may believe even the most heavily used craft spend more time tied up than under way. Silly things become important, when sitting in the saloon can you see out of your windows without having to stand. Is there ample deck space. Huge speeds whilst lovely to have beg the question.. "how often can you open up without your fillings dropping out of your teeth" So a boat with a nice deep V that can maintain say 20 knots in a force 4/5 is superior to a vessel that does 30 knots but in anything less than gale force 1 moderating must keep down to 12/14 knots. I have a pal with a 32 knot boat that I can leave on the horizon if there's a nasty chop yet my top speed is not much over 20 knots.

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tcm

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Re: oho! - he\'s got some money!

sorry bout the title but many throw in this querstion expecting their 2nd hand boat to cost the same a car. If you're looking at sealine c39, then maybe you have got to grips with how much these things cost.

1) In saily boats, there are special "charter layouts" which means cramming as mnany berths (8 if poss) into a 36 foot boat. Not so with powerboats: you tend to get the same number of berths regardless: 2 cabins up to bout forty feet = plus convertible saloon, with possibilty of three (sleeping six) from there upwards.

2) Size matters. The longer the boat, the more capable (less bouncy around) it will be in wavy conditions. And of course the more expensive.

3) Flybridge/Sports. Flybridges look as though they are steadier, slower etc than sports crusiers, but in fact the extra (relatively small) amount of weight makes little difference to outright speed for the same engines. Shorthanded, I found a sports crusier (fairline targa 48) easier as first boat cos when mooring it's easeir to walkiover and help than a foorty foot flybridge. For the UK - flybridges are great cos nice and cosy in marinas. But be aware of the issue regarding going up/down at sea, and once a crew member is down below they often seem to "leave you to it" and they could be anywhere. Princess have a good name in UK and abroad for strong flybridge boats. Broom have a good name for a half-way design - "command bridge" so you still have the inate safety of sport cruiser but have the extra space of a flybridge which you'll need for longer liveaboarding - worth a look. Afraid sealine are seen more as MFI than BMW/merc/volvo. Princess, Broom are more your bag and the high-gloss/cream carpet look of many princess examples may work against it for extended liveaboarding. In a house, once a year somebody drops a plate of food, a cup of coffee, a glass of red wine, so it'll deinitely happen on a rolly boat if you live on it.

4. That med run: There's a fair difference between boats for coastalcrusiing once-a-year longer cruise ....and boats that will run to the med and back. It's around 100 hours to the med and many UK or med-based boats of this size aren't run that much in a whole season - 100 hours being seen as the typical annual rate.

I would want a 40-foot boat for that trip, longer the better, pref over 45, partly cos of the extra space, partly for comfort as you arebound to find some weather, and altho you'll make it in a shorter boat (even a very smallboat, youcan hop along once across the channel) it will be quite a grind. You need a decent generator and possibly aircon so that you can take advantage of calmer and less ocean-like (longer gently-rolling waves in atlantic) med and anchor out in quiet coves, saving £60 quid a night in high season when there might not be space in some places (such as south side of majorca, cote d'azur) in jun-august.

....so how much do you plan to spend?
 
My God, I think I've found a kindred spirit! Torbay I think I can honestly say that you've got the right idea IMHO. You'll get loads of help on here and if you get some knockers (er, wrong word I think!) listen to what they say and then do what you wanted to do in the first place. Good luck! Where in Torbay are you mooring?

Cheers


Steve
 

hlb

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Not to sure why we've ended up with two threads on this one, but any way.

If theres only going to be two of you on the boat 99% of time.
One bedroom should be fine. I have one bedroom, kitchen, dinning and saloon areas. Loads of room for just two of us. If ever theres three or four. The dinning area converts. Thus giving maximum use of space for most of the time. See no reason at all why you cant live for extended periods on a 35ft plus, fly bridge boat, provided that you can visit a washing machine occasionaly. Every marina and most harbours have launderets so no problem. Make sure the boat you buy is fitted with a holding tank. For the sewage. Else it's a long walk in the middle of the night!! Sailing back and forth to the med in a 40ft Fly Bridge boat is realy a none starter. Yes theres plenty of folk that have done it, but ther are a lot of practicalities to over come. Thats a better job for a sail boat IMHO. Could meander down there, going round Biscay, but an awfull long way. But not a problem if take all summer.

"boating is the journey and not the arrival and so believe that speed is secondary to say space, except when speed provides additional safety. So I think I’m looking for flybridge rather than sports cruiser."
Hmm! Not so much the case for motor cruisers. Thats what the raggies like, or say they like. For me, being miles out to sea is just plane boring and stressfull. It's a means to an end. Like going down a motorway. Some one said. The best bit about sailing is going out of harbours and coming into them. I think that is about right. Plus of course, ambling round little bays and exploring rivers. Only reason for crossing big lumps of sea, is to find the next area where there are plenty of the above. In the UK a fly bridge boat is a must. Loads of room down stairs. But still got upstairs for the sun. Personaly I'd do the same for the med. Cos then can have air conditioning as well.

With a power boat. Trips of 100 miles is quite far enough in one day. And for fun, you would not want to be doing that every day. Three or four hours thrashing about is enough for most folk before stopping in a bay or harbour. Best routes are where you can bumble along the coast, stopping for lunch, a beer in the afternoon and so on. Torquay is idealy placed to do this in a westerly direction. All the way down to Falmouth. Or cross to the CI and bumble around there.



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KevL

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The choice of craft is very much a subjective thing, it all depends on what you think is important and in this respect everyone is different. But let me tell you a little tale.

About 18 months ago my wife and I decided we wanted to take up boating, we knew nothing about it and hadn't got a clue what we needed. Pictures in magazines didn't give much help in deciding what we wanted so we set off to look at as many boats as we could before deciding on the first purchase which was a Bayliner 2556. Now when we bought her we thought that 29 feet would be long enough, the V berth in the bow would be big enough, there would be enough storage space etc. What we found was that we both loved going to the boat at weekends and when ever possible we would take her out and cruise around the coast but in truth we didn't go very far away from our marina. More often than not just went out, floated around for a bit, did a bit of fishing and came back on the same tide. A lot of this had to do with the fact that the Bayliner ran on Petrol and I hadn't fully appreciated how limited the supply of fuel would be and how expensive petrol would be in marinas. This is very different from the way we envisaged our boating life when we bought the boat. We also started to find that the V berth was not ideal, there wasn't enough room for all the "necessary" galley stuff, etc. etc.

So what happend next? Well we've sold the Bayliner and are in the process of buying a Broom 41. This really does have loads of space for all the bits and pieces that you simply must have and can really be used for spending the summer on and some longer cruising which we will now be able to do because of the twin Diesels.

Before buying the Broom I looked at an awful lot of makes between 37-45 foot, Hatteras, Trader, Sealine, Fairline, Princess to name a few but the Broom seemed to suit US best. I stress us because it is a very individual thing.

When we bought the Bayliner we limited the expense initially because we didn't even know if we would like the boating life or not. Some will say that this was the wrong thing to do but for us it worked and I didn't loose anything finding out as we sold the Bayliner for a few quid more than we bought her for.

My advise is look at as many boats as you can in your price range and make a choice based on what you think you will need. Be prepared to get it wrong because almost undoubtably you will want to change it within a short time, you will only really find out what you need when you don't have it / can't do it. To this end don't pay over the odds for your first boat and try to buy a popular make that you can sell easily.

As for engines and drives, well IMHO go for a popular engine make driving conventional bog standard shafts because everyone understands them, you can get them fixed anywhere and they are not going to restrict your customer base when you come to sell her on. Loads of stuff has been posted on here about various engines and drives so a quick search may be in order for more specifics.

Above all enjoy it.

KevL



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Torbay

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Re: oho! - he\'s got some money!

Thanks TCM,

Well I do know I won't be sailing. I know that upsets many but if people were suppose to be standing at 45 degrees, god would have given us one leg shorter than the other. No seriously - it just doesn't attract me but I do like the idea of taking my time under power.

I'm homing in on a fairline 38 (soon to be 40) type of cash although I can't be more specific as my wife can read and she's for this but I've got to take it gently budget wise. I take your comments about the "being down below" but I'm confident that we'd get into a ritual of being outside together when we're "working".

Are flybridges more unstable because of their height and will they roll around more? How do you balance that downside against the extra space? Will a 40' take us safely to the med ie around the "bay"? Will I be very scared often?!

I read your comments elsewhere (I think it was yours) about Sealine and your views on "leather"! They do appear to have some very good design ideas that they're prepared to try for examply on the F42/5 with the extending cockpit - but there does seem to be some longevity concerns.
 

Torbay

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Thanks Steve, for the encouragement. But is it a daft plan!? I have to say that all of my most succesful projects have been the daftest ones so I'm quite optimistic!

Well I'm mooring on land at the moment as this will be my first boat. I have my completed form in for a berth pencilled in for "April". I'm told one may be available before as the requirement for 40' is somewhat less than average. I'm told that it can be longer - but it will "stick out". A technical nautical term I think.
 

hlb

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Re: oho! - he\'s got some money!

A fly bridge boat is not going to roll. Unless you stop in heavy seas of course. But they all do then. With two of you, you will tend to be upstairs together or down. Except of course, when you send SWMBO down for the butties. Sealines have not got to good a reputation round these parts. Far better with a Fairline or Princess. Although if you can find one with Cummins instead of the dreded V*lv*'s, so much the better. And propper shafts not outdrives. The sea areas round CI, Britainy can be quite difficult to navigate, loads of rocks till ten miles out or more, and prone to fog as well. It's quite hard work going a long way in unfamiliar waters. Much better when been a few times and know where the hazards are.

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Torbay

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Thanks for your thoughts Kev,

I hadn't heard of Broom I'm embarrased to say but I've just looked at their web site and can see they offer a lot of living space per foot. I've called them and asked for their brochure so thanks for the pointer.

What was it you particularly liked about the Broom that you didn't find in say the Princess of Fairline or the others you saw? What impression did you get of the quality of boat from each manufacturer?

J
 

tcm

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Re: oho! - he\'s got some money!

A hideous number of problems in boating happen when people have a time constraint and keep looking for different weather forecasts until they find one that they like. If you have the time, you needn't go out in nasty weather.

Boatwise, have a look at longer boats - this is NOT like a bigger car which is constrained by road width and so on. Boats increase in volume in proportion to the CUBE of their length. So a 45 footer will have 50% more volume than a 40 footer and will feel that much more capable at sea.

Flybridges may feel as though they're rolling around more, bu you're onlya little higher. The massive weight of the engines, machinery and tanks right down below keeps things stable.

With fairlines, although nice boats, you may be paying for some style and speed that you don't need. The longer the boat the higher the crusiing speed at which you'll feel comfortable. The long-distance game is to get out at daybreak at plonk along at 20ish knots. 10 hours on a lightly-protected flybridge will be quite some day. You have to do that for most days for 2 weeks. If you do get a flybridge, keep the patio doors shut - the airflow reversal at the stern will pull in smoky air and interiors will go grey/black. Note also that with flybridge you may want repeaters at top and lower fort radar and chartplotter. No, I wouldn't get a flybridge, nor a non-shaft drive boat, nor a fairline (phantom?) 38 - but hey - nobody takes any notice of the advice here!

I would look for a boat with conventional shaft drive - easier to manoevre at slow speed, simpler all round and less trouble-prone than an outdrive boat with engines to the back for more internal spce and the "Z" essentially being the gearbox out of the back.

Mostly, powerboating should reach "exhilarating" which means "nearly frightening".
 

DavidJ

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Quite a lot to go at here and having spent the best part of a year going through it myself and settling on a Sealine S37 (not the flybridge) based in Sardinia, I hope I can help a bit.
Rather than try to give you a solution if I outline my thought process it may help you in your thought process.
Here goes
I wanted new so budget said a boat in 37 ft range
I have a thing about small flybridges. 42ft is small with little bits of space everywhere so my preference is for a sports boat where 8 people can all sit around comfortably and have fun together (although there are the two of you, you will be entertaining family and liveaboard friends.
If you are doing the Med go for standard engines that people know how to fix. I went for KAD 43's in preference to the electronic 44's. Shafts are not available on new 37ft boats but if they were I would have gone for them...much easier to back into the Med stern to mooring in a cross wind.
My only 'extra' was a bowthruster absolutly essential in my view.
Don't ever consider giving up the house for a boat. I've met a couple of sad yachty liveaboards this year who, with house inflation, will never be able to buy a house again.
Buy the boat you want for the Med not for the Bay of Biscay journey. You can get your boat (dependant on size) trailored to the Med for £3k-£4k. I've not done it but the Bay of Biscay sounds a challenge but not much fun.
I've looked at the C39 and for me it's too enclosed for the Med and with the top hatch open the sun beats down onto you which you don't want. Nice lines and style though.
My reason for a Sealine is that I've had two before and they are great and the support staff have a good friendly flexible easy culture...so why change.
There is a lot of stuff on the boat chat on Med marina berths which are especially scarce so don't assume that it will sort itself out after you have bought the boat.
Why not buy in S France from reputable firms like Ancaster and insist that the sale is dependant on them providing a place for you??
hope all this helps a bit
David
 

KevL

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Why a Broom? My wife liked the net curtains ;-)
(Well I may as well get that one in before anyone else does)

But seriously. Broom make good solid well screwed together boats and to some degree that is reflected in the second hand value, they are not cheap. They give loads of accomodation which is full standing height in all cabins unlike some others (purposely mentioning no names) which have reduced headroom in the aft cabin. Oh and we wanted the master cabin aft.

Also we wanted to be able to get some privacy on the aft deck whilst in a marina, on a lot of the others we looked at the aft deck was only 3-4 feet above the pontoon so it was easy for people pasing to look in, the Broom has a raised aft deck which gives the privacy. A good sized seating area on the bridge for cruising with friends.

A light spaceous well fitted out saloon with plenty of seating for lounging about on with good access to the mechanical bits below.

Good wide side decks were also essential as it is SWMBO who does the fender bit and I wanted to make sure she could move around the boat easily.

Not a V*l*o in sight in the engine bay which was a requirement, instead we find twin Perkins sabers. These will give a comfortable cruis at 22 Knots while only drinking 20GPH or so I am told. 18+ knots cruise was my requirement which makes just IOM accessable within a tide for me.

A proprely fitted out galley with a proper oven, 4 ring burner, fridge freezer, and stowage for plenty of pots and pans etc. Also a dinette area is nice to have instead of the fourth cabin which would end up being a junk room. The dinette converts to an extra 2 berths if necessary anyway.

That's about it really...

Oh and one last thing, the Broom 37 was our second choice for all the reasons above but it hasn't got quite as much seating area on the bridge. There is a very nice 1991 Broom 37 for sale in Hamble, no connection except that I viewed it.

KevL



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tcm

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Re: hear hear!

the aft cabin issue is good. (for newbies: aft cabins are nearer the cntre of gravity and are quieter at anchor away from the slap slap slap of wavelets (even tiny ones) on the bow)

So, a Broom is a Strong Recommendation!!!

Storage: I wd question the amount of storage on a Fairline for serious long-time living aboard. The cuboards are nice but not voluminous or numerous.
 

Torbay

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Re: hear hear!

One thing has puzzled me so far about the many slaps at Volvos.

One piece if advice is buy something that can be serviced anywhere by anyone. The other piece of advice is don't buy volvos. Most manufactuers of the 35 - 50 foot flybridge motor cruisers offer them with Volvos. How does one reconcile these factors?

J
 

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Having read your requirements, if it was me I would buy a Broom 42CL with Yanmars, 30knts if you want it, good inland for journey to med, comfortable to live on for extended periods, good helm position, big aft cabin, large saloon you can see out of etc.... its a boat for the long term that won't go out of style and will look after your money. Not a boat for the fashion concious though.
 

KevL

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DEPSOL

Put the Soltron back in the drinks cabinet and tell this chappy all about engines.....

KevL

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tcm

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Re: volvo

Volvo are very dominant in this range. Some of the engines seem overstressed - wringing extra hp from something originally designed for half that power. However, seeing as how many volvos there must be, there aren't THAT many anti-volvo posts- only frm those with broken engines, in my opinion.

Mind you - i haven't had volvos of might (or might not) be more vociferous.
 

tcm

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true.

Mind you, i chromed the covers and heat shield for the caterpillars. Sounds daft but at least draws one to provide bit of tlc to the engines. Also, v good excuse for idly sitting in the engine room. Also, never any b&llsh!t from the engineers that you haven't looked after the engines. Also, looks like a ton of tlc when time comes to sell boat instead of usual erm that's the engineroom down there.
 
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