What should I be worried about with my boat in Spain come Brexit 2021?

DavidJ

DavidJ

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I’m sure this has been debated at length but I’ve clearly missed it. I’ve heard people discussing getting Dutch registration which makes me more confused.
My boat is UK purchased VAT paid of course and moored happily but alone in Spain. (Catalonia)
What should I be worried about come Bexit 2021?
 
DavidJ said:
What should I be worried about come Bexit 2021?
Click to expand...

Probably nothing because your boat is in the EU before the end of the transition period and therefore will be considered EU VAT paid. More worrying might be whether you can actually get to your boat in Catalonia anytime soon without quarantining when you get back into the UK
 
DavidJ said:
I’m sure this has been debated at length but I’ve clearly missed it. I’ve heard people discussing getting Dutch registration which makes me more confused.
My boat is UK purchased VAT paid of course and moored happily but alone in Spain. (Catalonia)
What should I be worried about come Bexit 2021?
Click to expand...
Dutch registration is a bit strange - there have been problems with the authorities here in the Algarve, I've been told that Belgians better.
Can your boat spend more than 6 months without leaving ? I imagine that Spain is a bit like Portugal as far as local interpretation is concerned so you really need local knowledge.
 
kashurst said:
Once the UK has completely left the EU can UK residents still keep UK registered boats in the EU permanently?
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Yes .
Spain is perfectly within its rights to impose its own rules on foreign flagged boats that are based in its waters. In fact this already happens in its neighbour.

This “ British flag = British rules “ debate regularly crops up. I think you need to read Uncloss 11 and other international agreements. The coastal State can impose whatever conditions it wants on vessels NOT on innocent passage. Portugal for instance requires pleasure craft there for more that 6 months to carry the same safety equipment as Portuguese registered ones although unlike a few years ago Portugal where foreign flagged boats that are deemed resident are required to comply with local rules on equipment. New Zealand also applies local rules to foreign boats that are resident, although like Portugal it exempts genuine visitors or boats on "innocent passage".

Innocent passage is an important concept in international law as that is when coastal states apply the principle of "comity" and respect the state flags rules. However once a boat starts cruising within the waters of the coastal state, and that time exceeds 6 months then “innocent passage “no longer applies and with it comity, although in practice most states do extend comity, at least for private leisure craft. That’s the current position within the Med
 
A few years ago the French ( Macrons tax grab ) imposed two things on foreign flagged vessels staying permanent in Fr waters .
It effected the super yachts mainly. Majority fly a red of one sort or an other .
Part of Marcon s tax grab .
1- The Fr equivalents of our PAYE , tax + there “ social charges “ on crew .
2- VAT free status on fuel and other stuff was removed .

Net result = They moved taking away business.
eg Dilbar s owner ( up to 80 crew in season ) bought a berth in Barcelona.....still has it btw .
A local dock fuel del guy had to 1/2 his fleet of trucks chucking drivers on the Fr eq of the dole .

Within 6/9 months Paris bent to pressure from the marine industry spokes people and local mayors ( ghost towns ) and issues a “ memorandum “ to temporarily reverse out those two changes .
The SY industry returned to the CdA
 
I think it’s a bit naive to think nothing is going to happen post 2021 with boaters based in the Med .



Hopefully the Fr SY lesson has not been forgotten.For a short time the Italian and Spanish economies benefited from Frances folly as boats moved sideways .



imho with Spain three headwinds for boaters currently based there imho

1-The Fishing thing ....if the UK hold it’s current and constant position “ independent coastal state “ .....They won’t like there fishing boats being chased out of our waters post 2021 .

2 - Gibraltar.....Eu unity and our allies have foiled Sp intentions....up to now .

3- Nationalism / right wing movement rises in economic down turns ,

Jobs for Spaniards facilitated by none Spaniards moving back ,



Mix those three in = a recipe for not so friendly polices for UK boaters .





France has already had its fingers burned by meddling, but will suffer from the “ fishing thing “ I don’t think Macron will damage the CdA boating industry again .

Italy will follow the money so to speak and mop up any business , fall out from Spain or France aggressively based anti U.K. boat polices ...if those two go down that route .

Italy today seems to welcome foreign flagged leisure boats with open arms .

It has no axes to grind with the U.K. .

Italy is happy to defy stuff coming from Brussels because it feels aggrieved by the immigration issue , having to bear the brunt , the lack of initial Corvid help ( Germans would not send ventilators etc ) and the EU central bank assistance turning from grants to loans for some of the money .

So if they can poke one in the eye so to speak of somebody ( more so if a German accent btw ) in Brussels they will .



Things tend in my view to have the opposite effect .

Any pragmatic gov economic adviser post 2021 for Sp , Fr and IT might try to stimulate, grab , make it more attractive for UK 3 P states in the sense try to steal the business from it’s neighbours .....With Covid + Brexit ...just desperate for any cash to trickle in anywhere.

If Sterling rises against the euro ....then “ hello and welcome big spenders “



Wait and see .
 
Thank you all so much especially Portofino for taking so much trouble to give a very comprehensive answer. I know the Spanish have a habit of reinterpreting rules eg in my area taking away villa waterfront moorings, which people have bought, and now people have to pay rent.
 
Portofino said:
Yes .
Spain is perfectly within its rights to impose its own rules on foreign flagged boats that are based in its waters. In fact this already happens in its neighbour.

This “ British flag = British rules “ debate regularly crops up. I think you need to read Uncloss 11 and other international agreements. The coastal State can impose whatever conditions it wants on vessels NOT on innocent passage. Portugal for instance requires pleasure craft there for more that 6 months to carry the same safety equipment as Portuguese registered ones although unlike a few years ago Portugal where foreign flagged boats that are deemed resident are required to comply with local rules on equipment. New Zealand also applies local rules to foreign boats that are resident, although like Portugal it exempts genuine visitors or boats on "innocent passage".

Innocent passage is an important concept in international law as that is when coastal states apply the principle of "comity" and respect the state flags rules. However once a boat starts cruising within the waters of the coastal state, and that time exceeds 6 months then “innocent passage “no longer applies and with it comity, although in practice most states do extend comity, at least for private leisure craft. That’s the current position within the Med
Click to expand...
Not quite right. Portuguese law requires any vessel not on passage to meet their safety requirements. There is no question of six months. That is the law but in Portugal what really matters is local interpretation. Portugal and especially the Algarve has long been England's best friend and I think it unlikely that there will be any change next year but there are no guarantees, the EU hawks are likely to want to punish the UK.
 
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