What navigation instrument do you use?

[johnalison]

I meant in advance. Accurate enough to plot a line on a piece of paper of where you are going to sail?

It’s called planning. I suspect that many or most of us would not set out on something like a Channel crossing unless one had a decent chance of doing it in one board. If circumstances change, it is helpful to have at least a vague idea about where one is before departing from the line drawn in pencil. How accurate this estimate is depends on whether the GPS is still working or not.

 

[roblpm]

I think that you are missing a great deal, but first to acknowledge that not everyone agrees.

I’m of the school of thinking that navigation is an art, an enjoyable one, too.

My boat is fully loaded with electronic toys and I try to utilise their capability to the full.

For me, part of the enjoyment of being at sea lies with navigation.

Conversely, I find it hard to comprehend why people want to race their boats but I acknowledge their skill etc.

Sailing is and always will be a very broad church. There’s room for all of us to play until our hearts are content. I happen to like traditional chartwork ?‍

Of course. Each to their own. Navigation as taught by the RYA does sometimes seem to ignore that the direction of the wind might make some difference to the direction that you sail in though........

I learnt to sail by racing.

 

[roblpm]

An interesting point. From my own experience of a 600 nm from Peterhead to Plymouth this summer with two skippers onboard. Me a traditionalist chart and pencil skipper and my oppo a all singing all dancing electronic iPad type skipper.

We took about the same time to do a passage plan, we reviewed each others passage plan and agreed what to do if we differed. While on passage I had far more information logged in my head, my oppo was constantly referring to his iPad.

It would be interesting to hear if others have similar experiences.

Oh, on a dark and stormy night my chartplotter decided to time travel back to 2002, a software update has fixed that, while the position was correct the CP was displaying historical tides. I wonder how a pure electronic skipper would fix that?

All good points. I am really only messing around. Obviously a short written plan with important nav decisions is a great idea.

Personally I would fix the pletter failure by also having a laptop with OpenCPN and a Phone with Navionics. And maybe an iPad too mainly for watching movies but with Navionics as well. Oh and when I sail across the Atlantic 3 spare etrex gps's (3 for £100 off ebay) with AA batteries and a paper chart. OK if the GPS system and the others are taken out by a space war and my compass fails I will head for where the sun sets until I hit land......

 

[Poignard]

Of course. Each to their own. Navigation as taught by the RYA does sometimes seem to ignore that the direction of the wind might make some difference to the direction that you sail in though........

I learnt to sail by racing.

Unless I have misunderstood you, I have to say that on the Day and Coastal Skipper courses I attended allowance for leeway was always a part of working out a course-to-steer.

 

[roblpm]

Unless I have misunderstood you, I have to say that on the Day and Coastal Skipper courses I attended allowance for leeway was always a part of working out a course-to-steer.

Of course.

What about tacking and gybing?! And wind shifts?
Getting there quickly without the engine.... ?

 

[Humblebee]

The reefer rule has probably not been made for many a year.

However by the magic of the internet, one seems to be available here:

Reefer Rule extending parallel rule | eBay

Quite a bargain, an old YM says they were £18.55 in 1981 ?

.

Thanks Doug, appreciate the link.

 

[Humblebee]

"I’m of the school of thinking that navigation is an art, an enjoyable one, too.

My boat is fully loaded with electronic toys and I try to utilise their capability to the full.

For me, part of the enjoyment of being at sea lies with navigation."

I quite agree, Skylark, navigation is fun, not a chore.
To add my own tuppence worth to this interesting thread, my own practise is to work out a passage plan, generally the day before using paper charts, Portland Plotter and dividers. Then, on the day, I use the electronic chart plotter to double check what I worked out the previous evening. It's satisfying and rewarding when they match, back to the paper charts if they don't!

 

[Skylark]

Of course.

What about tacking and gybing?! And wind shifts?
Getting there quickly without the engine.... ?

Two possible answers:-

1. Sailing is a sport for gentlemen and gentlemen do not sail to wind ?

2. Navigational techniques for sailing to wind, tactics for shifts, lee-bowing etc are all covered in the RYA Navigation handbook. This is a recommended accompaniment to Day Skipper courses but, sadly, not everyone undertaking them shows interest. When I do these courses, my opening brief always includes something along the lines of “the more you out it, the more you’ll get out”. I always show some suggestions of text books to read around the core content of the course.

It’s all out there, you only need ask your instructor ?

 

[roblpm]

Two possible answers:-

1. Sailing is a sport for gentlemen and gentlemen do not sail to wind ?

2. Navigational techniques for sailing to wind, tactics for shifts, lee-bowing etc are all covered in the RYA Navigation handbook. This is a recommended accompaniment to Day Skipper courses but, sadly, not everyone undertaking them shows interest. When I do these courses, my opening brief always includes something along the lines of “the more you out it, the more you’ll get out”. I always show some suggestions of text books to read around the core content of the course.

It’s all out there, you only need ask your instructor ?

I do know how to do it! I passed some exams once..... ?

But I just watched the course to steer video off here: Course to Steer video tutorial - Endeavour Sailing

It's all back to front for me.

Starts with tides, then variation, then leeway.

To me it would start with which direction I am going to sail in dependant on the wind? Seems like motorboat navigation to me.

As you say maybe noone sails upwind. And maybe noone cares about the best speed downwind. So beam reaches all round.

 

[Skylark]

I do know how to do it!

But I just watched the course to steer video off here: Course to Steer video tutorial - Endeavour Sailing

It's all back to front for me.

Are you sure that you’ve done a course ??

 

[DownWest]

Are you sure that you’ve done a course ??

Are suggesting one to steer, or one in skool??

 

[roblpm]

Are you sure that you’ve done a course ??

More than one....... Obviously doesn't mean much. I think the last few years of only racing have rotted my brain. But I'm pretty sure that with a few apps on my phone I could get a cruising boat from a to b without too much drama..... I did used to fairly regularly before the divorce induced boat sale.

 

[Daydream believer]

I too enjoyed one of those tape devices, name escapes me but loved it, in our case over a Yeoman paper plotter permanently mounted under a perspex cover on chart table., perspex matted so could draw on it with a soft pencil. As electronic plotter evolved I reverted to large square (Douglas?) protractor as a backup,

But you can get angles & bearings etc on a Yeoman plotter without the need for a Douglas protractor. Although I admit that I have a protractor with a bar fitted with 2 rubber rollers that I have had for 50 years. Bought from Captain O M Watts & I just like it. I do like drawing over the Yeoman just to test my skills. Fantastic bits of kit for passage planning & you can see the whole area rather than small areas that you have to zoom in & out of.

 

[Daydream believer]

I have a set of these which I like to leave on show on the chart table in the hope of creating the illusion that I know what I'm doing.

View attachment 127138

Makes a good back scratcher as well

 

[Robin]

But you can get angles & bearings etc on a Yeoman plotter without the need for a Douglas protractor. Although I admit that I have a protractor with a bar fitted with 2 rubber rollers that I have had for 50 years. Bought from Captain O M Watts & I just like it. I do like drawing over the Yeoman just to test my skills. Fantastic bits of kit for passage planning & you can see the whole area rather than small areas that you have to zoom in & out of.

I confused you perhaps because the Douglas only came into play after the yeoman had been replaced by electronic plotter(s) until such time as now when no paper charts are routinely carried. The most excellent Yeoman went with the boat to a nice Frenchman, I've had 2 more boats since then, 3 if you count this one.

 

[rib]

, I've had 2 more boats since then, 3 if you count this one.

Why don't you get some experience on different boats and sailing. Then you should be able to buy the boat you need /want ?? And not keep having to buy and try ?????????

 

[mattonthesea]

Back to OP. I'm of the eyeball and two fingers brigade, even with a chavnav. (Just realised that might be misinterpreted.) I often use two fingers as dividers. ' We're about here and going in this direction so we should get to about here' . Ah, the Portland plotter too.

Of course I become a little more accurate when approaching somewhere like Shoreham or Salcombe in the dark! ?

Like a previous post, I find that the planning on paper stays in my head so the electrickery is often just for confirmation.

 

[Gixer]

Of course. Each to their own. Navigation as taught by the RYA does sometimes seem to ignore that the direction of the wind might make some difference to the direction that you sail in though........

Interesting point. I did my Day Skipper practical the other week (long overdue) and when plotting a course look into account the wind direction and possible tacking waypoints to get a more accurate course.
The examiner was surprised I did this at Day Skipper level and said this kind on planning was expected at more Yachtmaster level.

I was intrigued by this as I've never plotted a course without taking into account wind direction.

 

[Wing Mark]

Interesting point. I did my Day Skipper practical the other week (long overdue) and when plotting a course look into account the wind direction and possible tacking waypoints to get a more accurate course.
The examiner was surprised I did this at Day Skipper level and said this kind on planning was expected at more Yachtmaster level.

I was intrigued by this as I've never plotted a course without taking into account wind direction.

I think the idea of the RYA YM exercises and exams is to teach and test a basic competence in adding up vectors for tide etc.
In real sailing you will usually want to do something different, but it's good to understand the concept.

If you start setting questions where people exercise their judgement about where to tack etc etc, it becomes more difficult to test whether they actually understand the basics..

 

[mattonthesea]

I think the idea of the RYA YM exercises and exams is to teach and test a basic competence in adding up vectors for tide etc.
In real sailing you will usually want to do something different, but it's good to understand the concept.

If you start setting questions where people exercise their judgement about where to tack etc etc, it becomes more difficult to test whether they actually understand the basics..

One of my friends, who is a rocket scientist, had an argument about vectors with her DS theory instructor. He was unaware of the vector requirement of magnitude and direction!