What makes a marine engineer?

milltech

milltech

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This may sound ridiculous but anyone can say they fix stuff and come and offer their services, are there formal qualifications that say, "You can go forth and fix this in a garage", or for marine engineers, "You can go forth and start removing sea cocks etc".

Do people mostly qualify themselves, and if not what would they normally have done to service the epithet "Marine Engineer".
 
You have to be skinny, resilient, impervious to cold, and waterproof.
An excellent diagnostician, with an infinite capacity for logical deduction, and cups of tea or coffee.
The ability to drift an old car sideways on gravel in the forest is a bonus, but not essential.
Your first name should be "Paul".
 
In my case 13 years service in the Royal Navy starting off as a Junior Marine Engineering Mechanic (Baby Stoker) culminating in the rank of Chief Petty Officer Marine Engineering Artificer ML (Mechanical priority with Electrical discipline) (coloquially known as a Chief Tiff or Engine Room Artificer), at one point I was also a Mechanician before the Navy integrated Mechs & Tiffs together, all supported by several years full time training, BTEC 4 in Electro-mechanical engineering (Full 'Tech Eng' status), Unit watchkeeping certificate for large warship Marine plant Gas Turbine, Steam and Diesel propelled (I could turn the engines on on various Frigates & Destroyers), Diesel repair City & Guilds, Workshop fitting & turning City & Guilds.

Otherwise I would expect at least a decent Mechanics background with a known engine maker or an established agent, ideally with suitable recognised national qualifications. This would also provide the dedicated knowledge required to competently service specific makers engines, and I would never claim to be an expert on a specific make range, without that experience and maker's training, and when I acquire a new vessel I expect a learning curve as I get to know my engines. I am OK on Yanmar YSB, VP TMD40; TAMD60C,and getting there on Cummins 6BT5.9M, I am fairly OK on most outboards. I do understand to some degree how most marine engines work, but this does mean I know how to adjust the timing for every engine, or indeed most, of service a supercharger without the right manual, or professional source of advice.

A full marine engineer will have good knowledge of all shipboard mechanical systems and working knowledge of much of the electrical and increasingly electronic systems that support them.

But then no engineer can know all specifics, which is why reference manuals are required and must be consulted when appropriate.

Be wary of engineering degrees though - knowing the chemical composition of the beans doesn't mean you can open the tin !

I only practice professionally on my own engines now, although I am fortunate to be able to apply my background daily in my refrigeration and air-conditioning business. I still regard my primary discipline as being a Marine Engineer.
 
There are no rules in UK about using the word "engineer". It is a criminal offence in UK to say you're a solicitor, barrister, doctor, others if you don't have the full qualification, but no such law exists for the word "engineer". I'm not saying I agree - I'm just saying how it is. It is different in many other countries, where the use of the title "engineer" is subject to criminal laws similar to what we have in the UK for "solicitor" etc.

So if you're hiring a marine engineer in the UK it's caveat emptor, but it's fairly easy to track down the good ones of course
 
jfm said:
There are no rules in UK about using the word "engineer". It is a criminal offence in UK to say you're a solicitor, barrister, doctor, others if you don't have the full qualification, but no such law exists for the word "engineer". I'm not saying I agree - I'm just saying how it is. It is different in many other countries, where the use of the title "engineer" is subject to criminal laws similar to what we have in the UK for "solicitor" etc.

So if you're hiring a marine engineer in the UK it's caveat emptor, but it's fairly easy to track down the good ones of course
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And this lack of protection reflects IMHO the lower value that we place on Engineers in this country relative to some others (also not saying I agree, it's just how it is). Years ago when a pal of mine was undertaking his first degree in electronic engineering he had a placement in Germany and it reinforced exactly this point when he saw how engineers there were respected. It has not only had repercussions over time in terms of our competitiveness but is a shame when you consider our engineering heritage.
 
I completely agree prhperio. In my book the various UK chartered institutes of engineering sciences have done a bad job for their members over the last perhaps 30+ years, on this score. They had a golden opportunity around 1980 following the (late) sir monty finniston's report (which government commissioned, liked and took notice of) but IMHO they wasted it and have never gained significant traction since. Brings back memories: back then (mid 80s I mean) I wrote a paper on this very point and sir monty read it and kindly awarded me a bursary or scholarship or something ( well £500 to be precise, which was a lot of money in ye olden days!) towards my final year at imperial (mech eng). I wish the engineers would pick this up and give it another shot but it will take a good leader of one of the institutes with some fire in his/her belly
 
And this lack of protection reflects IMHO the lower value that we place on Engineers in this country relative to some others (also not saying I agree, it's just how it is). Years ago when a pal of mine was undertaking his first degree in electronic engineering he had a placement in Germany and it reinforced exactly this point when he saw how engineers there were respected. It has not only had repercussions over time in terms of our competitiveness but is a shame when you consider our engineering heritage
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I agree. I was a C.Eng for 20+ years, but got disillusioned with the institutes. I've got a degree in Naval Architecture and I maybe know a bit about boats but I'd not pretend that I was an 'Engineer'. Needs fully developed real life expertise, coupled with technical background knowledge.
 
FlowerPower said:
You have to be skinny, resilient, impervious to cold, and waterproof.
An excellent diagnostician, with an infinite capacity for logical deduction, and cups of tea or coffee.
The ability to drift an old car sideways on gravel in the forest is a bonus, but not essential.
Your first name should be "Paul".
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+1 to that
And the will to walk away from a skipper that wants it done wrong.
 
There are a number of routes to becoming a "Marine Engineer". Shipyard experience and apprenticeship was common at one time. Not so many ship yards around now. Cadet training programs are much more common in the Uk. It is still possible to work your way up from the deck plates starting as an oiler. Usually with a mechanical back ground though not always. With enough experience or sea time working on vessels with engines of sufficient horse power or KW.. Pass a 4th Class, 3rd Class, 2nd Class or 1st Class Certification as a Marine Engineer. This could be Steam Motor or Combined, Naval qualifications a different but also include gass turbine and nuclear.

I wonder what the OP means. Perhaps wrongly I concluded he would like to find a suitably qualified professional to work on his engine on his boat. Rather than a university educated engineer, of which there is a multitude of varieties. Presumably none of whom provide a professional service tweaking the engines on small yachts. Even a "Marine Engineer" is unlikely to be interested in providing a professional service for a small motor yacht. Most of the "Marine Engineers" I know have little or no desire to work on engines they can't walk around. Unless its their own.

I would expect to be able to hang up a shingle advertising a professional service for the repair, or maintenance small motor or sailing yacht engines. Requires training and certification as a diesel engine mechanic. and training or experience working with specific manufacture's engines. If the engine is a outboard I would take it to an outboard mechanic preferably one who specialises in the particular make. Likewise with an inboard gas or petrol engine.
 
+1000 to jfm's comment.
Strangely enough a group of us student engineers got in do-do with our employer for writing an open letter to 'The Engineer' publication making the point that having spent several years training both in the practical side and gaining degrees in engineering, we had no greater rights to the term 'Engineer' than a Qwikfit tyre fitter, and were held in comparable esteem.
The Institutions have missed their chance.
 
Volvo Penta operate what is called the Global Learning Academy, which is an online study system covering all aspects of marine maintenance.
As of Jan this year it was a requirement that all mechanics/engineers in the dealer network have passed these exams. My boss was surprised to fine I had done them all before the requirement was sent out from VP, but I love collecting knowledge and knowing how things work as opposed to being a fitter and just swapping parts without finding out the cause of the fault.
Sadly there are too many of the latter in the branch which give it a bad name as being unprofessional, mind you the car business is not any better.
 
spannerman said:
Volvo Penta operate what is called the Global Learning Academy, which is an online study system covering all aspects of marine maintenance.
As of Jan this year it was a requirement that all mechanics/engineers in the dealer network have passed these exams. My boss was surprised to fine I had done them all before the requirement was sent out from VP, but I love collecting knowledge and knowing how things work as opposed to being a fitter and just swapping parts without finding out the cause of the fault.
Sadly there are too many of the latter in the branch which give it a bad name as being unprofessional, mind you the car business is not any better.
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Very well put I think. I am not and have very little motivation to know how an engine works, But sometimes something will tweek my interest and I will ask the technical question. All I can say now is most engineers/mechanics don't fix things they replace them. Its always amazed me when I have visited a so called 3rd world countries (African and Indian) How they are able to strip an alternator down fix it then put it back together with it working where as here they just fit a new one, this must result in skill fade etc! I have met a few mechanical engineers who are great at the theory, but have never really got their hands dirty, Personally I would always prefer someone who can fix my engine rather than design one as the two do not necessarily go together. Either way I have respect for both of them as they are normally far brighter that me :) So I think the bottom line is I don't mind if they are an engineers or a mechanic as long as they can fix it because I know I probably won't be able too
 
"What makes a marine engineer?"

To be able to suck in large amounts of air through your clenched teeth whilst shaking your head and making up some astronomical figure for a repair or service that outside the boat industry would cost a quarter of the amount. Well that's my impression from the one's I've met anyway.
 
There are two locals where I am berthed. One lazy old geezer who lives on a boat, rather well fed and doesn't get out of bed until 11am. What he doesn't know wouldn't fill a pocket guide. The other is his racing snake. A young lad who can lift a 135A/h battery lying flat on his belly with his arms at full extension such is his strength. The lad knows nothing but brute force. The old geezer sits on his butt all day passing on his wisdom to his working apprentice until the apprentice one day will become a fat lazy git and take on a racing snake of his own. This is why you pay for two men to do a one man job, just saying, but they get the job done. Sort of. Anyway, that's my experience of marine engineer, because the "qualified" ones are getting much better pay working on the offshore wind turbine farms going up and aren't interested in my boat anymore.
 
I had the pleasure of solving an engine problem for prof Ian Donald who developed the pratical apllication of ultra sound in medicine whilst not implying any equality in any way we both respected the others knowledge.
I called myself a marine engineer for many years after a 5 Year apprenticeship as it best described my job it seemed correct
 
Lloydroberts said:
Not wishing to start an age old argument but the above isn't strictly correct.

An engineers can also be a person who designs, builds, or maintains engines/machines.
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Which is what I do.. With engines that produce in some case near 450+bhp/litre. I'm not uni trained, and have no formal higher level qualifications. Sometimes (rarely) I wish I had gone that route, but only for the letters. But I do know one thing, and that is how engines behave and how to build them and fit and program the electronic management systems required to make them competition winning, hence its now my main business.

I do occasionally wonder about moving into the more marine sector one day. I have a lot more to learn first... and I know full well about a hobby becoming a job and err not being fun as a hobby any more...
 
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