What makes a marine engineer?

FlowerPower said:
You have to be skinny, resilient, impervious to cold, and waterproof.
An excellent diagnostician, with an infinite capacity for logical deduction, and cups of tea or coffee.
The ability to drift an old car sideways on gravel in the forest is a bonus, but not essential.
Your first name should be "Paul".
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Great reply, and I'll add "the patience of Jesus Christ most days when you look how boats are built"
 
Beyondhelp said:
Which is what I do.. With engines that produce in some case near 450+bhp/litre. I'm not uni trained, and have no formal higher level qualifications. Sometimes (rarely) I wish I had gone that route, but only for the letters. But I do know one thing, and that is how engines behave and how to build them and fit and program the electronic management systems required to make them competition winning, hence its now my main business.



I do occasionally wonder about moving into the more marine sector one day. I have a lot more to learn first... and I know full well about a hobby becoming a job and err not being fun as a hobby any more...
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I guess your involved in F1 engines then?
 
In my opinion a lot of "marine engineers" are just fitters, not interested in fixing- just replacing, a real engineer will try fixing and replace as the last resort.
 
bigwow said:
What makes a marine engineer?

A good reputation and repeat business!
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The replies have all been quite good, fair and reasonably balanced, I would add that there is little difference between a fitter and an engineer Both Should understand how the part works and why it needs replacing.
The service industry is faced with customers who want fast repairs at rock bottom prices,
It is usually cheaper to replace a quick change unit,eg alternator, rather than run up a labour only charge to diagnose, remove, recondition, refit, test & warranty the repair/job.
by simply replacing the alternator a huge chunk of labour only costs are saved (more than the cost to supply&fit a pre reconditioned/new unit)& the replaced unit will likely carry a warranty for 12 months with the reconditioner/manufacturer for the whole unit & not just the rusty worn bearings and burnt out brushes.
It may seem that a unit was "just swapped out" but did you know what to replace or why?

sadly the kids that mount car tyres probably dont know why the manufacturers put coloured dots on tyres, or the difference in ratings! I wonder how many folk on here have car tyres on their prized boat trailers!
 
daveyw said:
I'm happy to work on Sulzers, MAN, B&W, Mirrlees Blackstone 40,000hp upwards
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Mirrlees? National KVSSM twin turbocharged (intercooled) single acting 4 stroke, V16 diesel engines which produce 3,000 bhp (2,200 kW) at 320 rpm. 15 inch bore by 18-inch (460 mm) stroke. Over 50 and still running. I think MAN provide the parts now, When did they go out of production? I have heard there are a few old Locomotives still using them.
 
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volvopaul said:
Great reply, and I'll add "the patience of Jesus Christ most days when you look how boats are built"
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Ain't that the truth

People do confuse engineers and chartered engineers though

You do not need a degree to be an engineer, by definition an engineer is someone who designs*, builds or maintains engines, machines, structures or electrical equipment. Isambard Kingdom Brunel did not have a degree, George Stephenson was barely literate, Richard Trevithick learnt his engineering on the shop floor, Nikola Tesla was a dropout, James Watt never progressed beyond Grammar School as far as formal education was concerned and ... well the list is endless. Few if any of the all time great engineers were educated to degree level or the equivalent thereof in their day and many of them had relatively little formal education

Nor do you need a degree to become a chartered engineer even today but it's a lot easier if you've got the right letters after your name!

The key word for me is "designs". A technician can build an engine but not design it, an engineer can design it and build it. A chartered engineer probably can't build the things he designs (:p) and in my experience the things he designs can't be built by the technicians either (:p again!)

There is an exception to the above of relevance because in the marine world "Engineer" has long been the accepted and common term of reference for the senior person or people in charge of the mechanical and electrical systems on board a ship

I would normally expect anyone calling themselves an engineer who does not have a degree (myself included I ought to say) to have served a technical apprenticeship (as opposed to a craft apprenticeship) and be qualified in their field to at least diploma level in their field of expertise or the equivalent industry specific qualification and to have considerable experience in their field at a project design level

I would also say that when I first qualified I was not an engineer, I was a technician. I was building equipment designed by other people. When I gained enough experience and became the other people who designed the equipment I progressed to being an engineer (and I could probably, in time, have become a chartered engineer via the work based learning route if I had a; been bothered and b; stayed in the electrical and electronic engineering game throughout my career instead of switching to IT)
 
Erbas said:
People do confuse engineers and chartered engineers though


Nor do you need a degree to become a chartered engineer even today but it's a lot easier if you've got the right letters after your name!

The key word for me is "designs". A technician can build an engine but not design it, an engineer can design it and build it. A chartered engineer probably can't build the things he designs (:p) and in my experience the things he designs can't be built by the technicians either (:p again!)
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I tried to ignore this.......................but failed.

As a Fellow of the I Mech E, and someone active within the Institution, the I Mech E does a p!55 poor job of reflecting and promoting the Engineering profession. Yes it is true that one does not need a degree to become a Chartered Professional Engineer, but it is very much an expectation these days, and suitably difficult to attain without one. We encourage all our Graduates (usually MSc is the entry point) to work towards Chartered status, so that they become Professional Engineers, and have a wall at the Manufacturing Technology Centre where all CE's are recognised.
On a practical note, there are many jobs I can do on my boat, and many more I don't feel competent to do, and employ a technician to do these. Some jobs I don't feel physically able to do, and a good bilge rat is a Godsend. Fortunately we have some great technicians at Portishead, knowing far more about boats and marine engines than I will ever know (Advance Engineering).

As some have said here, it is horses for courses, and we should not be too precious about titles. However, my analogy reflects hospitals. If a Doctor heard anyone calling a nurse "Doctor", they would have a seizure. If you are unfortunate enough to need hospitalisation, you need them both!
 
Yes it has to be said, Engineering is a very diverse discipline and someone who designs gas turbines wouldn't necessarily know much about internal combustion engines or gearboxes. Similarly someone who designs dishwashers, washing machines or other complex machines which are specialised fields in their own right wouldn't necessarily know anything at all about marine diesels or hull design. Basic laws and principles still apply though of course, but one of the things I've learnt in life is that the more you know about anything, the more you realise you don't know and the more there is to still learn.
In fact one of the definitions of competence is someone who knows the limits of their own knowledge.
So Engineering is rather like law or medicine in that there are specialisms because the umbrella subject is so diverse.

Marine engineer to me wouldn't normally imply hull design (although it could well be included) but systems and propulsion units. I could be wrong of course!
 
rafiki_ said:
I tried to ignore this.......................but failed.!
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Don't take it personally, it was a bit mean of me!

On a serious note though I note that you use the phrase Chartered Professional Engineer, Professional Engineer and Chartered Engineer somewhat interchageably

To use your Doctor analogy (and taking on board that all doctors are educated to above degree level) there are Doctors and then there are Doctors

There's the humble Junior Doctor, the experienced House Doctor and at the top of the profession the Consultant (who perversely as someone pointed out isn't called Doctor but Mr.!)

I entirely agree that (outside of the marine industry where "Engineer" has its own specific uses) an Engineer has to have a thorough understanding of theory as well as practice and that, I say, is the difference between an Engineer and a Technician. Chartered Engineers are the consultants of the profession and I have no beef with that but to try and change the meaning and usage of "Engineer" does go a little beyond the pale IMO

The problem, of course, is that "Engineer" has been usurped by many of the technical trades who are now all "Engineers" too and that's because in this country we have so little respect for technicians and precious little for Engineers. You'll note that I made the point that in my early career I was a technician but the rot was setting in when I switched from designing machine control systems to working in IT because even the lowliest technician out on the road was called a "Field Service Engineer"

(Looking back with the benefit of age and a smattering of the wisdom it brings, I suspect one of the factors, apart from the substantially better remuneration package, that encouraged me to switch from electrical engineering to IT support was that as an IT Support "Engineer" (even though at that stage I was still a technician!) I got a lot more respect than I did in the machine tool industry)

Chartered Engineers would certainly have cause for complaint if people were going around calling themselves Chartered Engineers who weren't. But you can't rewrite the English language as a form of trade protectionism

By the way, my qualification is a diploma in Electrical & Electronic Engineering, not a diploma in Electrical & Electronic Technicianing! Perhaps Chartered Engineers should take up their complaint with the British Technical Education Council as well as the Oxford English Dictionary :D (that was also an attempt at humour, in case it missed! :p)
 
Sorry to be a pedant, but Consultants are referred to as Dr.

Only surgeons are Mr.

There are some strange historical reasons for this which were explained to me many years ago but I've forgotten.
 
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