What makes a British boat better than USA boat?

EURO build quality from the renowned builders is good but not exceptional
for example if you take a Viking Hatteras Bertram the build quality is generally better and lay up weights and double size stringers to EUROpEANS builds does supports this
for example I would say an Aussie Riviera has the same quality as most popular brands here in Europe (Fairline, Princess, Sunseeker, Azimut, Cranchi, Aicon and so on)
in the US Sea Ray, Chapparal, Marquis, Carver, Four Winns and Doral have similar quality to this
for what I have seen for example a US Tiara is normally better built to renowed Eurobuilds too with a similar price tag also
as for the Deep Vee this is a common misconception that a deep vee is a better boat is totally false
1) what forward entry does the deep vee has
2) what speed WOT does is the boat designed to go
3) what is the beam
4) how about weight distribution which practically can make an average hull turn into a bad one and a good one into crap

for examples many call EURO builds deep vee but in fact are all minus 19 degrees aft which makes them in really a moderate vee aft, and all warped hulls about 35 degrees forward entry
the old Flines Olenski hulls had 15 degrees aft but a sharper entry forward and did take the sea better to the new ones for example
 
You're bursting my bubble Poweryacht. I was hoping Fairline quality (at least) was a cut above the usual fare from the US. NOT talking about design fashion in this case, which seems to drive a lot of these "which is better" discussions.

Kelly
 
Poweryacht

You certainly are exposed to many brands, if you get the chance to look at the Aussie brand Maritimo, take it. The builder is Australia's "Godfather" of boat building (Bill Barry-Cotter).

One of my roles at work, is skipper of the bosses Princess P66, for 4 years now (1997 model), we truly love the old girl. She was bought from a previous life as a show pony on Queenslands, Gold Coast (500 eng. hrs.) and put to work as a coastal cruiser. She plays most of her games in the infamous Bass Strait (South Eastern Australia). She rarely leaves port without doing 300 miles per voyage.

I asked the question just now, about contempory shaped boats, and are they an improvement. With the sharp low bows, they do tend to ship a lot of water if the conditions become adverse. Has there been a trade off with looks against practicality.
 
"Viking Hatteras Bertram the build quality is generally better and lay up weights and double size stringers to EUROpEANS builds does supports this"

Does that include this one which fell to bits while actually being used.
Do not add Water !

A single instance anywhere worldwide of a brand new Fairline or Princess hull coming apart at the seams due to shoddy construction would be a start.
 
yes it includes this one
hell not being used is 500 hours in 6 months, I dont know how much of you do this here...
do anyone here treat them boats as some as the Sportfisher do in the East Coast, I dont think so
still any human is viable for the mistake and Bertram paid up that well for the owner, as he is getting a 700 as a replacement
 
hallo AndieMac
yes I know Maritimo, and Billy was also previously in the past or co-owner of Riviera...
till now I heard only good things of Maritimo but is mostly from cruisers and normal usuage

For example a Riviera can do this well, bit if u give it to a Sportfisherman the result would be not so good, these Sportfisherman really give a test to there boats in the US too
I also think that both Maritimo and Riviera are trying to develop a hull which can plane at low speeds and consume less at this, that Riviera 56/58 EB round Australia trip was interesting read too with minimum consuption at low speeds of 12 knots and a range of 1000 nm plus

KCook I think the quality of a builder is really derived of many things dealer support, customer satisfaction and after sales service
from a distance perception (which can all be wrong) and from the US forums what I read is if I live in the US I think of all EU brands I would stay mostly with Princess because of the Viking partnership, and in the East Coast would have a look at the Ferretti Group due to its buyout last Summer of Allied Bertram dealership there...
 
Poweryacht

There is no doubt the sportfisher guys work their boats hard, seems like a very testosterone and alchohol fuelled pastime. Unfortunately some marketing (in this country anyway) aimed at this fraternity, implies that certain boats can handle any conditions; "When the others are coming in, we are heading out" kind of mentality. This has proven to be disasterous for the uninitiated boater.

Is sportfishing very big in Europe, there does not appear to be many boats made with this porpose in mind.

Reading that January post about the Bertram 630 hull failure, I noticed that MapisM is no fan of Bertram as a brand, do you know why?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Reading that January post about the Bertram 630 hull failure, I noticed that MapisM is no fan of Bertram as a brand, do you know why?

[/ QUOTE ]Huh? Truth be told you're right, 'cause I'm no fan of ANY brand as such.
But in that thread I only explained why - pretending to know a bit of the average US mentality, though of course I might be wrong, as in any personal opinion - Bertram would have been badly hurt by those pics in the US. And I also mentioned that this was sad.
Has that anything to see with being or not a brand fan?
In any case, since you seem to think that Poweryacht knows better, I'm also looking forward to hear his explanations of my own viewpoints... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
MapisM

I don't who actually knows better, only having dicovered this forum during the week, but are very interested in being involved with informed discussion on anything "boaty".

There appears to be some very clever, experienced boating charaters on this forum, not just talking about fishing, which is the case in this country, boats are just platforms to catch fish and drink beer on.

Bertram as a brand (there's that word again), has been long standing in Australia, although being built under license locally, and are now called Caribbean.
 
As a generalisation, I consider Bertram to be amongst the very best built boats.

In HK there are dozens from the 70's and 80's, and almost without exception the have held up extremely well.

I was looking at a 42 being renovated on the hard at the RHKYC last weekend. Beautiful tough old battleaxe.
 
The 42 is indeed a tough old girl, with an extremely soft ride. The aussies (Caribbean) extended the cockpit by 3 feet to give themselves more fish fighting room.

Most were Detroit Diesel (6/92's) powered at 550 h.p., and as they get age on them, as opposed to lots of hours, have become problematic. You could say that about most ageing machinery used in recreational boats.
 
Fairenuff. But mind, PY surely knows better than myself about sport fishing boats.
My joke was only because I don't think he (or anyone else) can know better about my own opinions... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
hello AndieMac
yes I have a passion for Sportfishingboats always growing in the last year,
EU boats accept for some Italian Yards dont built much this style, but it is also true that the market for this kind of boat is on the increase in Europe too, especially in Italy followed by France, Spain and Croatia
so this might change in the coming years
MapisM has a very integral view point on any thing here, without giving a preference for country of origin, hell I think me and Nautical lean more towards his home Italian builders then himself /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
but from his posts here I think MapisM has a general preference for classic building methods like wood and steel construction, for the rest you got to ask to him as I am sure he knows better

that Bertram delamination was a terrible happening for such a legendary name, but it is also true that the company made it well to the owner so this might have turned not so ugly
as long as boats are hand built some of this sooner or later will happen to anyone, and a surveyor will tell u is more common then a single accident to that Bertram alone someone might think is
in 2007 there was a UK builder who replaced a 58 and 40 feet with a new one after about a couple months, I dont think they did it to them because the owner where fashion or nice or was it....
 
G'day Poweryacht

I noticed that MBM was testing a Maritimo 48 this month, maybe Bill feels the Euro market is ready for a sportfisher/cruiser, sounds as though you think so.

It has only been the last 5 years or so in Aus. that some of the flasher Italian and Euro boats (later models anyway) have been sold into the country on a reasonably large scale, due to the sharp rise in wealth. Things were booming along, until the economic hand-brake was pulled on. I'm keen to learn more about the boats you guys are using all the time.

The Scandinavian boats seem to get good reviews, and always have done.
 
Scandi boats are very rated by English boaters here in Malta we have a lot of old Coronets and Fjord, and a few Windies and a couple of Nimbuses
the old Coronet 21 hull is used for local builds mostly for tourist escursions or fishing boats
that is a super boat but
they usually do what a British boat does but a bit better in taking the sea, albeit a bit smaller inside
look for Windy, NordWest, Nimbus, Coronet, Aquador, Storebro, Scand and Fjord
I like what NordWest is doing a lot, but the new Windy models 44 and 48 are impressive too
still worth to note that both Fairline and Princess have a Scandinivian hull designer since the 80s for there hull underwater shapes are signed by Bernard Olenski
Italian Azimut used to colloborate with him too, but now is using a hull designer who came from a previous militray experience....
 
"in 2007 there was a UK builder who replaced a 58 and 40 feet with a new one after about a couple months, I dont think they did it to them because the owner where fashion or nice or was it.... "

Obviously a very well kept secret..... do tell who the builder was !
 
is not my job to do this
if there is a foto proving who this was as the case for the Berty we can say who this is....
but owners where happily replaced with new boats so why to do this if the factory did a well after sales service
 
I have heard the Olenski name mentioned before, sounds like the Eruo version of Raymond Hunt (USA).

During the P66's delivery trip in northern Bass Strait a few years ago, in conditions that maybe should have been left alone, travelling along at 9 knots with wave after wave on the deck, there was this massive sensation of nothing. We soon discovered it was fresh air, she was free falling into the trough behind the wave we just passed through.

Fourty tonnes(fully loaded) she landed with an almighty crash, picked herself up and kept on ploughing through, with 250 miles of open ocean ahead. I knew then this was going to be a pretty special boat.

I think Bernard knows his boats, Princess have got a pretty good idea as well.

If only they could get those bows a bit fuller, and drier. Fashion victims perhaps?
 
[ QUOTE ]
I think MapisM has a general preference for classic building methods like wood and steel construction

[/ QUOTE ]Well I rather have a preference for properly built boats in general - frinstance, I take my hat off when I see grp boats built like the following (yes, grp it is!).
But back to the original point, care to guess which Country does it come from, anyone?
ER.jpg
 
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