What makes a boat "Classic"?

[PaulJS]

How old does a boat have to before it is regarded as a classic boat?

Is the designation only applied to boats of a certain age? If so, where is the line drawn between being a classic and, for example a boat that was originally built many years ago but has been restored from the keel up? Surely that would effectively be a new boat built to an old design.

In fact perhaps that is the definition - being an old design.

Also, can glass fibre boats be classics, there are many now approaching 50 years old, and although their hulls and superstructures may not show age in the same way as wood, they are probably old enough to be regarded as classics, aren't they?

 

[Tranona]

Whatever you want it to be! No rules. This subject has been debated many times on this forum and in the magazine with no definitve answer. There are some generally accepted criteria for what might be considered that usually revolve round materials, style, age, designer etc but widely diverse opinions within that.

So, my 1963 boat scores high because it has a good design pedigree (famous designer), high on style (in my eyes it looks great), not so high on performance and low on materials - wood but the dreaded plywood. But it is nearly 50 years old so it must be classic!

 

[PeteCooper]

My boat was built out of grp in France in 1972 - and she is definitely a classic.

 

[EuanMcKenzie]

who are you trying to convince?

In my view there are lots of GRP classics.

Not sure it is a widely held view in Classic boat circles. That's why I gave up my subscription.

I like a Fife like the next man but there was too much wood adoration for my liking.

I guess you also get nice old boats! Not sure how you tell which is which and i'm not sure you'll get the answer here!

 

[Rum_Pirate]

From Antigua Classic Regatta http://www.antiguaclassics.com/10html/overview_classic.html :

What is a Classic?

Most of us in the yachting scene know a genuine Classic when we see one. She was built years ago when all yachts were things of beauty and grace with fine lines and acres of canvas. The survivors of that golden era are unmistakably classic. But what about other classics?

We’ve all seen fine examples of the craftsmanship of yesteryear carried on in modern vessels like Braveheart, Wild Horses, White Wings, Alejandra, Windrose, Victoria of Strathearn, and Savanna. All have the fine lines of a classic but are built and rigged using modern techniques and materials. We also must include as classics the wonderful traditional workboats of the past that are now sailing the seas as yachts.

To be eligible for the Antigua Classic Yacht Regatta, all entries should have a full keel, be of moderate to heavy displacement, built of wood or steel, and be of traditional rig and appearance. Old craft restored using modern materials such as epoxy or glass sheathing, or new craft built along the lines of an old design, are acceptable. Vessels built of ferro-cement may be accepted if they have a gaff or traditional schooner rig. Fibreglass yachts must have a long keel with a keel-hung rudder and be a descendant of a wooden hull design.

Yachts not fitting into the above categories may apply in writing with documents, photographs or drawings to support their request for entry in the Spirit of Tradition Class. All entries unknown to the regatta committee must be accompanied by underwater and rig photographs or drawings, and are subject to approval by the Committee, whose decision is final.

Then they have the Spirit of Tradition

Spirit Of Tradition

The Spirit of Tradition Class was established worldwide in Antigua for vessels recently built along “classic” lines using modern techniques and materials. Yachts in this class must have a “look” that is true to a traditional design and must demonstrate excellent craftsmanship and tradition both on deck and in the hull. They may however, have modern underbodies and appendages and use modern technology in their rigs. The Committee will limit the number of entries for this class. We will accept yachts that are exceptional and those whose owners have gone to extraordinary lengths to ensure that their vessel maintains the beauty and lines characteristic of fine yachts built in the past. All yachts wishing to enter this class must complete a Pre-Entry Form and include photographs of hull rig and deck layouts, for approval into this class. After the yacht is accepted, an Official Entry Form will be sent to you by the Committee. The Spirit of Tradition Class entries must be measured and have a current CSA measurement certificate.

The Spirit of Tradition Class has a trophy structure of it's own. The legendary yacht Ticonderoga sponsors the trophy for First Overall in this class. It is the Regatta Committee’s hope that by creating the Spirit of Tradition Class, we can continue to encourage the future building of exceptional yachts that keep the classic traditions alive.

 

[Tranona]

Perfect illustration of my first observation. This self appointed body has made its own definition, but it has no status other than that accorded by owners of yachts who want to appear in its events!

In a way self fulfilling because people who want to participate in the events have to own boats that meet those criteria. Therefore they become "Classics" - but only if participating in the events is important to you!

 

[Rum_Pirate]

Perfect illustration of my first observation. This self appointed body has made its own definition, but it has no status other than that accorded by owners of yachts who want to appear in its events!

In a way self fulfilling because people who want to participate in the events have to own boats that meet those criteria. Therefore they become "Classics" - but only if participating in the events is important to you!

Suspect that they (Antigua Sailing Week) were unable to find any authoritative sources with definitive descriptions, so they had to come up with their own definitions to be able to allocate various vessels into various classes.

I do not think that it was done with any other preconceived malicious ideas or intent.

You could drop them a line and inquire as to the origins of their definitions.

 

[Tranona]

Not suggesting there is any malicious intent. Just illustrating that the meanings of words can be whatever the user wants them to be in the context in which they are used.

The OED definition is

"Of the first class, of allowed excellence; of the standard ancient Latin and Greek authors art or culture. In the (classic) style, simple, harmonious, proportioned and finished."

Nothing about yachts there and lots of licence to use it subjectively for just about anything!

It is no secret that clubs and other bodies create their own specific definitions to include and exclude yachts (in this case) of which they approve or disapprove.

An excellent example from another field is the Vintage Sports Car Club, which as long ago as the 1930's decided Vintage cars were those built before 1931. The date was chosen because they believed it was a transition date from craftmanship to factory production. Gave them a lot of problems with owners of some superior cars built in the 30's so they invented a new category of Post Vintage Thoroughbred. As time went on more categories were created to cover cars (of which they approved) built in later periods.

You find exactly the same happening in Yachting with groups forming to cover particular types of "Classic" boats and defining them in a specific way according age, style, design usage etc.

 

[Simes]

Fantastic, we now own a CLASSIC!

Just read "RUM-PIRATE"'s reply and he is right - on.

We live on board our boat, a Ferro Cement Schooner from 1977.
Talisman is a copy of an 1890 Stay Sl' Schooner, built in Ferro Cement and is traditionally rigged (apart from the "bottle" screws.

First time I have seen her described as a classic!

Thanks Rum Pirate

 

[Lakesailor]

Go to a classic car show and see the Austin A60s, Triumph Heralds, Ford Anglias etc.

The owners think they are Classic Cars.

Hah.

 

[Tranona]

Go to a classic car show and see the Austin A60s, Triumph Heralds, Ford Anglias etc.

The owners think they are Classic Cars.

Hah.

And try fitting in my 2003 Morgan Runabout! I am at least allowed in thye "Classic British Open Top" section on Poole Quay last Friday of every summer month - if it is not raining of course.

BTW whats wrong with Heralds and Anglias - you are talking my yoof - right about A60s, particularly the one that hit and wrote of one of my Anglias.

 

[Lakesailor]

They were not the "must have" purchase when they were new cars. They were not drool-over machines. Now they have a place as a record of what existed, but Classic?

Do me a favour.

 

[Madhatter]

I have a classic Laptop ,built in the traditional way with all the usual problems (windows 95)battery failure, screen fade --yes its still working even after 12 years (in my ownership ,bought at a classic laptop auction)

But I see the points being made about classics-- how an earth do you decide what is or is not (got the same problem with my car) as for my boat an early 70s grp mini cruiser (can't call it a pocket cruiser as that class is already taken by the navy)

 

[Madhatter]

Oh by the way the laptop was called a cutting edge classic

 

[Tranona]

They were not the "must have" purchase when they were new cars. They were not drool-over machines. Now they have a place as a record of what existed, but Classic?

Do me a favour.

Thats the problem. Go back to my OED definition - it is at one level so wide that it can mean all things to all men and at another (in the examples) so narrow that it could not possibly be applied to cars or boats!

You are applying your own interpretation to the word, just like many others!