What lights when not under command?

Re: Yachts .....

Thank you for agreeing with me re more lights the better,
also that Ships will avoid craft showing strange lights
exactly my point. When hove to use deck lights as well
Ocean Liners run around lit like Xmas trees.
SEE and BE SEEN. I am sure your insurance co won't
mind you taking every precaution to avoid being run
down. As to being run down by a ship whose watchkeeper
is'nt paying attention it would'nt really matter how many
lights you were displaying would it??
 
NUC or not

Nick,

From the responses given, there seems to be confusion regarding the meaning of NUC - it does not mean you're dead in the water, or you "can not do anything"; it means you can't manoeuvre in accordance with the Rules, because of extraordinary circumstances. Being hove to in bad weather, can make you NUC, if the weather is so bad that you are unable to manoeuvre. It doesn't matter if you can steer somewhat or run your engine. If you're simply hove to out of convenience, then I submit you are not NUC. Either way, I think a watch should be kept. And if at all possible, I would use NUC lights and upper deck lighting (and/or light up the pilot-house lights - if you are so equipped) to add to your conspicuity. I wouldn't use running or sailing lights as "drifting" is not "making way". FWIW.

Kevin
 
Re: NUC or not

get a grip. and stop interpreting rules to suit yourself. Not under command means you have absolutely no control. If hove to, you have many ways of controlling.

I can see why Shipcat is bailing ship. the level of knowledge here is dreadful.
 
Re: NUC or not

[ QUOTE ]
the level of knowledge here is dreadful.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Let's start with yours. Directly from IRPCS - Rule 3(f):
"The term "vessel not under command" means a vessel which through some exceptional circumstance is unable to maneuver as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel."

Perhaps you would care to flip through your copy of Cockcroft - "At the 1972 Conference it was considered that adverse weather conditions seriously affecting a vessel's ability to manoeuvre would be exceptional circumstances. However, the fact that a vessel's ability to manoeuvre is affected by weather conditions does not necessarily mean that she is not under command. The conditions must be so exceptional, with respect to the particular vessel, as to render her unable to keep out of the way of another vessel by alteration of course and/or speed in order to justify the showing of not under command signals.
In addition to vessels which have had a breakdown of engines or steering gear, or which have lost a propeller or rudder, examples of vessels which are likely to be accepted as being not under command under the 1972 Rules are: a vessel with her anchor down but not holding, a vessel riding to anchor chains with anchors unshackled, and a sailing vessel becalmed."

It took some time and effort on my part to transcribe this, so I hope it will enlighten.
So Brendan, would you like to tell Mssrs Cockcroft and Lameijer to "get a grip" also, or would you like to amend your statement?
 
Re: Yachts .....

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you for agreeing with me re more lights the better,
also that Ships will avoid craft showing strange lights
exactly my point. When hove to use deck lights as well
Ocean Liners run around lit like Xmas trees.
SEE and BE SEEN. I am sure your insurance co won't
mind you taking every precaution to avoid being run
down. As to being run down by a ship whose watchkeeper
is'nt paying attention it would'nt really matter how many
lights you were displaying would it??

[/ QUOTE ]

Are we talking at cross purposes here? I am NOT agreeing with people who say 'I put all my lights on'.

Whether it always applies to a yacht is a matter for consideration in the circumstances at the time.

I have no problem with putting decklights on etc, however I DO have a problem with people who put ALL their Nav Lights on.

I can see no purpose in such an action, except the outcome of making other seafarers think you are a pl**ker...

As to whether hove to=N.U.C. It depends on the severity of the weather. The hove to mentioned in the ruling by another poster I believe refers to a ship hove to by steaming into or with the weather/waves. I have been in such circumstances and in several thousand tonnes of ship, you don't always have the ability to avoid collision in such circumstances, hence NUC may apply.
 
Re: Class 1 tosh is it .....

Thanks tome, the right answer, I believe. Correct nav lights but as much non-nav light as your battery can muster - but beware of night blindness from the glare.

If conditions are so bad you need to heave to, it is almost certain yottie nav lights will be all but invisible to a ship and the yacht will be equally hard to pick up on radar. You will need to be ready to get underway again at short notice to avoid a collision and/or keep up a regular broadcast on VHF
 
Tome .... now you are inserting your words ...

"every nav light " ..... not what I said .......

I made no distinction as to what lights and also made clear that merchant ships use deck-lights ... I assume quite wrongly that as adults - readers can understand that without spelling it out .....

Second the debate had alreadsy cleared away the NUC vs Hove to argument ... it had moved on to NUC displays ...

Please keep up the there at the back ..... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
Re: Tome .... now you are inserting your words ...

Stop backtracking Nigel, it was clear that you meant every light regardless of IRPCS
 
Re: NUC or not

[ QUOTE ]
I can see why Shipcat is bailing ship. the level of knowledge here is dreadful.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cheap shot and not worthy of you.

Rick
 
Here is a light sequence that you may see and may not be familiar with

For many years it has been customary in Europe for a deep sea tug, when towing, to show the correct lights for tug and tow but ALSO to shine her searchlight in the direction of the tow.

This does not come up in the Colregs, but it is commonly done and is a good idea.

Keep in mind that the tow will be almost anywhere EXCEPT dead astern of the tug, and almost all the towing cable, which may be up to a kilometre long, will be under water.
 
Blimey ... what a useless argument really ....

Rule 1 actually says that a vessel is not excused from using all possible means to avoid collision / close 1/4's etc.

I am sure that Ins. co would be happy to know that you survived and your boat was not mown down cause you displayed enough lighting to show you were there ... instead of some feeble yacht nav light ...

If you are away from coast and shore lights - then the nav lights alone may be ok ... BUT when you have back-drop of shore lights and lets get one to you Tome ... Rig lights all up like 4th of July .... how the hell is anyone to actually see you ... it's bad enough trying to see a buoys lights which are better than average yotties .....
 
Oh dear .... I have to agree with Tome !!!! Shock Horror ...

Ban me now before it happens again !!!

So my engines running but shaft is disconnected ... due to failed coupling ... so now I'm Motor Sailing ?? I think I could be justified to call it something else ?? Certainly not printable here anyway !!!
 
Re: Oh dear .... I have to agree with Time !!!! Shock Horror ...

Ooops this isn't going to script for us, is it Nige? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Re: Oh dear .... I have to agree with Time !!!! Shock Horror ...

I know ... it's just not right .... for gads sake - disagree !!!!
 
Re: Lovely

[ QUOTE ]
Says who?

So using an engine to charge batteries makes you a motor vessel? Sorry, that's just plain nonsense

[/ QUOTE ]

Nonsense BUT TRUE!

To quote from the COLREGS:

b) The term "power driven vessel" means any vessel propelled by machinery.

(c) The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.

I take that to mean providing the engine is not running... if it is running then it is being used albeit not for propulsion and the regs don't distinquish what it is being used for... a silly point in a way but an important one IMO.
 
Re: Lovely

Well, it does say 'propelling' machinery. A running engine is not capable of propulsion unless the gearbox, shaft and propeller are also being used.....
 
Re: Lovely

Arny

You are mis-interpreting the regs. Having an engine running does not mean that it is being used as propelling machinery
 
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