What knots for reef points

[Uricanejack]

Recently I left them undone on my new boat when I reefed the main. Primarily because I did not have a suitable line to use for my chosen method.
As has already been said it is important not to put tension in these reef point or the sail can rip as they are not strengthened. All the tension should be ate the cringles for the new tack and clew of the reefed sail.
I like to use a “bunching line” to secure the loose fold of sail in a nice neat roll. It’s the method I first was shown and used as a bosun with the OYC.
Start with a small bowlin at the end of the bunching line put line through the first reef point after the tack round the boom and sail back thorough the bowline then on down to the next reef point, through round sail and boom back under the line and on down to the next, tied of with a slippery hitch at the last. If the foot of the sail is loose or has slides I would put under the sail not round the boom.
A different colored line for each reef is a good idea.
Leave each bunch just tight enough to hold bunched sail yet loose enough so no tension at any point. Should any load come on the bunching line it will spread out rather than in one place?
I don’t like the permanent lines; there is always a temptation for crew to tie to tight.
It occurred to me a bit of bungee cord at each point would be a good idea but I have never tried it. I am sure this method will meet disapproval as you have to go to mast work along the boom, I don’t see how you could tie the reef points without doing the same.
Personally I would encourage the use of a bow, just like your shoes it’s easy to release.

 

[snorkmaiden]

Running noose? I had always assumed that reef knots were for reefing, but I can see that they have some disadvantages! Could someone please give me a good explanation or I'net reference on how this know works and how to tie it?

 

[prv]

Running noose? I had always assumed that reef knots were for reefing, but I can see that they have some disadvantages! Could someone please give me a good explanation or I'net reference on how this know works and how to tie it?

Nigel was referring to how the end of the clew pendant is attached to the boom, not a new way of tying the reef points.

Pete

 

[Stork_III]

I suppose there must be a nautical name for those pieces of rope that live in the sail at the reef points ready to be used to tie up the bunt of the sail. (is that the correct word). QUOTE]

Always known them as reefing pennants.

 

[prv]

I suppose there must be a nautical name for those pieces of rope that live in the sail at the reef points ready to be used to tie up the bunt of the sail. (is that the correct word).

Always known them as reefing pennants.

So what do you call the actual reefing pendants at the clew (and possibly the tack) then?

Pete

 

[PatrickB02]

It probably depends on the sail. They were absolutely vital on Kindred Spirit's gaff mainsail, whereas on Ariam there are no points and I'm not even sure there are any eyelets for them.

Pete

The OP has a gaffer - see here http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?362661-Looking-for-some-advice-experience - so I think prv's comment above is authoritative. As to the knot to use, I would guess reef knots..?

 

[prv]

As to the knot to use, I would guess reef knots..?

No, because he wasn't asking how to tie them in use, but how to secure them in the sail.

Mine just used an overhand knot each side. You never need to undo them, so no need for a figure of eight. If you fancied some real sailorising there's probably some wall knot or Matthew Walker type thing you could do, but it doesn't convey any real benefits. I have also seen the unlay-and-stitch approach suggested by Parsifal. Maybe that's slightly stronger as it spreads the load versus a crimped ring, but there shouldn't be any significant strain in the reef points anyway.

Pete

 

[bbdave]

This has turned out to be an interesting read I didn't expect this much interest I was going to ask how long I should make them but I'll leave that for now I will probably just use a figure 8 or overhand knot I was just seeing if there was a correct knot so as not to make a sailing faux pas.


Dave

 

[maby]

Reef knots ?

I was tempted to post that, but it seemed a bit fatuous....

 

[bbdave]

I was tempted to post that, but it seemed a bit fatuous....

It was considering that I wanted to know what to tie either side of the sail not the two ends under it. I guess they are called points as the medieval lacings on clothes were called points.


Dave

 

[prv]

I was going to ask how long I should make them

Ideally, try them out in situ to see how much rope you need. Probably more for the second and third reef than the first as they're holding more sail. If you can't try them out (sail is not on the boat) err on the long side and cut them shorter if necessary.

If possible, you should be tying them under just the sail, not the boom, but if your sail has a boltrope in a track on the boom then you will have to go round the boom as well.

Pete

 

[prv]

I guess they are called points as the medieval lacings on clothes were called points.

Never knew that - thanks.

Pete

 

[Dab]

The boat I usually sail on has a loose footed main and a series of eyelets across the sail in line with each reefing cringle. We always tie off the clew round the boom with a sail tie, but we use shockcord for reefing ties and always feed those round the foot of the sail, never the boom. The way it was explained to me was that the line through the clew round the boom is your backup in case the reefing pennant slips or snaps. Then if you do lose the reef, shock cord arond the foot of the sail gives you a bit of room for the sail to move before the full strain comes onto it to to split it. It makes sense to me. Yes you do have to go forward to do it, but we reef at the mast anyway, and I have never felt it was much of an issue, particularly if the helm stears considerately.