What is YM worth?

PEOPLE like the so called professional skipper , that put a BIG sunseeker up on the GOODWIN SANDS at 30 kts, a few weeks back. are the sort that should have a ticket taken away.

How on earth can someone with this ticket, deliverying a big pleasure toy, that some hard working new owner has just spent £ 000's on........ be should a pleb ?

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I think we're being a bit harsh on the bloke. He's had his boat wrecked, nearly lost his life and that of his crew, got the fright of his life and I suspect will navigate a little more nervously for ever more. Maybe, just maybe, he made an error of judgement. I've done that loads of times. Fog is hugely disorientating. I'm not sure what the nautical equivilant of breaking a sword will do to remedy the situation. For me, the P & O ship was going way to fast and at that speed shouldn't have opted for just a two cable near miss.

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The poor guy got totalled by a lunatic doing 27 knots in bugger all visibility. A lunatic who didn't give a stuff who he hit as long as it wasn't big enough to slow him down. Luckily no one on the obliterated vessel got killed. From what I've heard, the skipper of the destroyed vessel is very experienced and has sailed safely and well for many years. Best wishes that he may do so in the future.

So what's the value of a YM? For most of us here, it is something to prove that we have accumulated some knowledge which we may or may not use. We've made the effort, probably enjoyed ourselves along the way, and made future enjoyment more achievable. So what if some YMs do daft things? Few will do the damage a demented doctor will do. Few will offend as much as a flatulent barrister who might like to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and get nicely overpaid for doing it.


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Clearly I think it's worthwhile as well - both personally and for those I now help on that particular road.

However, I've got a feeling that it's important who you actually do your learning with.

Also, as someone mentioned earlier in the thread - having a qualification doesn't mean you can't make a mistake - we're all human.

Magic

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Re: Does a barrister

in a village 5 miles from here we have had sillions spent on "traffic calming" & its ruined the high st, there is now a "snake" of traffic so pedestrians have to press a button to cross the road causing even more hold-ups to all.
the only person killed in the village was a nurse waiting in her car & was hit from behind @ 100mph by a met police officer "on training" & under instruction. the 2 plod have proberbly retired on "medicial grounds or stress " by now
come the revolution!.

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re IRPCS - in the other long thread on this subject it was said that the YM concerned has admitted no such thing, nor was it mentioned in the main body of the report, and he is very unhappy about the MAIB report.

Radar appeared to be a problem area for both vessels.

Was there any issue on sea survival? I thought it was a smart move to reverse his vessel thus delaying water ingress.


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It shows a willingness to learn about this fantastic hobby rather than just getting a boat for the pose value. Before taking my YM I knew nothing about boating at sea but now I have a basic understanding to build on. This must be better than just going for it. YM is just a start to put you on the right track, which it does very well. For that reason it's worth more than a lot of people give it credit for.

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Re: I do notice

that a large proportion of those who criticise & belittle the YM qualification do not hold a ticket. One can only ask how they are qualified to comment. I do remember that my YM examination was an extremely tough experience. I am very proud to have passed the exam & continue to make mistakes & learn on a daily basis.

The last thing I want to see is some petty beaurocrat driving through legislation to force us into compulsory licensing. When people volunteer to learn they are much more prepared to admit that their failings & act accordingly.

You say that you have no real person in mind when asking this question. From the tone of the replies, it would seem that, you have left little doubt to whom any criticism should be aimed!

Martin

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No! YM is meant to be the pinnacle, not the start, theres competent crew, day skipper and coastal skipper, before YM, they are the basics which is what you should be learning and gaining experience before YM. IMHO YM is too easy and not enough creedence is given to experience, the pre-qulifications, should be tougher and no fast track bullshit!. YM should be just that a master of a yacht! So Yes this incident does de-grade the qualification!

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Agree with your interpretation, and reversing was a smart move.

I've refrained from comment because I somehow don't feel that MAIB have quite got to the bottom of this one (IMHO) in their report.

I have a personal experience along these lines that I don't even wish to think about.

Also agree with comments about radar. If you have it on board, learn how to use it properly. It's not a new mobile phone or video, it's a piece of your safety equipment. Treat it as such.

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No! I dont think you read my post very well, A masters ticket, is based on years of experience and qualifications, a proper one anyway, we are not talking a liberian masters ticket, if there is such a thing. I wa advocating a higher experience level and a harder exam, but I guess you missed that bit. Never mind.

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Yes I did, I was being sarcastic about the highly trained highly experienced Master who didn't have his ARPA set up correctly (and unlike YM, radar training and testing is on the syllabus) who also thought that a CPA of 2 cables at 27kts in fog was quite OK! That surely must degrade the Masters certificate if he is typical of the breed.

There used to be mileage and night hours requirements for even taking the YM course - has that changed? Maybe they should add a requirement for fog hours and gale hours as well!



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Theres no mileage requirement for taking the theory course but there is to qualify to take the practical. However IMHO it is too low.
Sorry didnt realise you were being sarcastic, but I dont know where the guy got his masters ticket and also was he on the bridge? But of course he was well wrong for his speed! Also after coming obviously very close to a yacht, which he said they were plotting, so his ARPA was working, then it disappears when it gets very close, they just kept going?? with no echo on radar anymore? He must have known something was amiss, I would, wouldn`t you? What did they think had happened to it? Aliens! Something is not quite right there!! I think they are lying to cover there collective arses! IMHO of course!! But also the skipper of the yacht should have got his arse out of the way. Last resort jobbie!

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Re: I do notice

Well - I go along with that. Being honest I think if was to have to do either a yachtmaster exam or a driving test again, I'd probably fail quite splendidly. Its years since I did either and the passage of time and creation of habits - good and mostly not so good, would probably make passing quite difficult!

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Claymore
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It's main value is in demonstrating that the person holding it has made the effort to learn and have that learning examined.
I believe it is also indicates a person who will continue to learn, to read articles and MIAB digests.
I have learnt from this unfortunate incident and will be more activly practising with my Radar, looking for another Radar course ( I was not too impressed with the first one), expect large ships to be going too fast in fog, be aware that the large ship may have made an alteration of course and look for it on the Radar and finally myself only make an obvious change of course and use slowing down as the last option.
My heart goes out to the YM in the recent incident. I am humbly grateful for the discussion and lessons we have all learnt from his unfortunate incident and if I had been him would be proud that the necessary decision were made to abandon ship in sufficient time to enable it to be completed in an orderly fashion that resulted in no loss of life.
No one knows how well they will finally react in a real emergency and luckily most of us will hopefully never find out. Let us not be to clever with our comments with the perfect vision that hindsight gives us!

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To be classified as a YM you must have passed the practical exam, you are not a YM if you have only done the theory.


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To gain a YM you need to achieve a certain level of competence, doesn't mean you won,t make a mistake or misinterprete something.
As for Sea survival ,it isn,t required to gain a YM.
There is a big difference between being careless or reckless and making a mistake, and in my opinion think it would be unfair to remove his YM ticket for a mistake, had he been reckless then that would be a different matter.

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