What is YM worth?

[rhinorhino]

If a YM can sail around the channel admitting that he does not understand the basics of 1) the IRPCS 2) Radar plotting 3) the radar fitted to his own vessel and 4) sea survival and still keep his ticket whats the piont of the YM apart to make the RYA some money?


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[Chris_Robb]

a lot.
Put it this way - would you rather people had absolutley NO incentive or environment to learn more about skippering. At least the YM course opens peoples minds to learning more.

Accept YM for what it is - it is not a certificate of experience, but more one of 'AT LEAST I TRIED TO LEARN.'

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[ParaHandy]

i myself pondered the same ... as i watched the somnabulent form of a recently qualified ym ...

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[rhinorhino]

We are looking to charter a yacht out to a customer who holds a YM cert, are you saying that all YM should mean to us is "At least he tried to learn..." Is this dumbing down or what?
I am not against learning but there must a place for a serious non-MCA yachting qualification. I don't see the CAA treating the PPL in the same way do you?

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[claymore]

Aahhh - then you must support

Compulsory licencing - because if we want to drive a car we have a compulsory test, then if we do something silly, we lose the licence.
So if we had compulsory licencing of yotties then we could ban them if we could apply the same rules.
The YM isn't there to measured against in situations such as the one to which you refer and it isn't rigorous enough anyway to stand up as a professional qualification, nor is there a compulsory minimum hours log to be maintained once passed or re-validation scheme so it isn't really fair to make your gentle insinuation that the award is not worth very much.

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Claymore
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[jimi]

Listten Victor, jist cos yeve metamorphosed from a parahandy tae a senior parasicht there's nae need tae be sae grumpy .. I carried out a risk assessment and immediately perceived, the mair weight doon below the better!

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[Chris_Robb]

How do you measure experience from a bit of paper. Same with exams - some people can soak up detail but are no bloody good practically.

PPL etc have to keep flight logs etc. I suppose the only way to add value from experience is to insist on a log book being part of the post qualification certification.

From your point of view, - I now understand your question more, and the answer perhaps has to be - not much - except if this is what the insurance company stipulates, then is has value to that extent - you have covered your arse

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[Robin]

Does a barrister

that loses a case get barred?

Should the Captain not lose HIS ticket for not having his radar ARPA set correctly and for continuing at a 'safe' 27kt speed?

Do fully qualified police drivers not have accidents?

Is this what they call a 'troll'?


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[tillergirl]

Does that mean that as I haven't got a radar, never am going to get one and certainly therefore I won't use one, that I can't be a YM? The trouble is that if you want to 'police' YM and take their ticket away, you need yet another self perpetuating bunch of people that we all will have to pay for.

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[ChrisE]

My immediate response to your question was going to be 'at least the person has bothered to go through th process of learning sufficient information and experience to get a YM in the first place.' But when, on reflection I'd say, of the yotties I've met the YMs generally are better at it than those that aren't.

Sure, the person you are referring to didn't cover himself in glory but before asking to pull his certificate I'd want to be sure that he hadn't culpably been reckless rather than inexperienced in those conditions. Remember you don't get tested on radar in the YM and you can't get exprience but by going out and doing it.

I'm not sure whether this isn't a 'there but for the grace of god thing' although I have to admit to be a first rate coward so personally would never have put me or my vessel as close as has been reported. That said, I did inadvertantly once run our ship closer than I would have liked to another at night becasue I hadn't interpreted the light patterns correctly. I just waved at the deck crew but I could have been swimming.

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[bigmart]

I don't understand how most of the points you raise relate to the YM qualification.

It has been some years since I passed the examination so the memory is a little dim but I do not recall Radar & Radar Plotting being part of the examination. I had to attend a separate course on that subject, as I did for Sea Survival, first Aid & Deisel engine maintenance.

This leaves only the IRPCS & I must admit that I am a little surprised that a YM would not even know the basics of that subject.

Are you not being a little extreme in your comments?

Martin

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[jimi]

I think we've all been a bit closer than we should have been at some point .. but that's experience and its a real lesson.

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[RelaxedatSea]

A ym has substantial value, however it should not be used as the only measure of competence. It should be viewed alongside a log book, showing experience. But equally experience only goes so far.
I have crewed through several YM exams, and was sorry to see a very large difference in the standards which are expected. (In my ym exam, the YM candidates were expected to do most of their stuff at night, under sail. In another one, the whole exam barely lasted an entire afternoon - just getting dark returning to harbour.)
YMs have demonstrated certain skills under exam conditions, and that has to be worth something. However someone that passed a YM exam 10 years ago will have a different set of skills and knowledge to someone who passed yesterday. They will have forgotten some stuff, and learnt other.
Finally anybody who thinks that they know everything about sailing (be they YM or salty) is wrong. There is always more to learn.



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[rhinorhino]

Re: Aahhh - then you must support

Aaahhh, for just the reasons you cite, it might be reasonable to think that the qualification wasn't worth much.

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[rhinorhino]

Just to make it clear I am not referring to any actual person (living or dead) in the post.

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[jimi]

Ermm .. I actually thought you were making a very clear reference to the skipper of a yacht recently run down in the channel ... why so shy?

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[Rowana]

Ah, but . .

. . was he wearing his hat?

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[chris_db4]

thats simple its worth £1200, the cost of doing mine threoy,pratical,exam fee, travel to south coast from ireland/scotland x2 and four days sight seeing in london(i don't remeber how this was required) i don't have the ability to use radar i don't have one but this summer will be sailing one that does and will do the required course.

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[tome]

That's how I read it also.

YM is worth a lot to those who take the trouble to do it, and obviously b****r all to those who can't be bothered. You don't necessarily emerge a better sailor, but perhaps you become more aware of areas you need to develop. Assessment to a defined standard by a third party is useful in an activity where most of us learn as we go along. From what I've learned since doing it from others, standards of examination vary quite a lot. I can only speak for myself and say that it was demanding even after many years skippering boats. There are a few things I now do differently (better than before) so I can say it was valuable for me.

All IMHO of course.

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[bigmart]

So please explain. If the unreal person, you described, admiited to all the faults stated in you post. The only fault relating to the YM qualification being a lack of knowledge of the IRPCS.

Not only is this scenario extremely unlikely, it would suggest to me that, the YM passed the examination many years ago & has not sailed for some considerable time. Ergo the YM without some backup in the form of a log describing continuing experience is of little value. But there again would that not also be true of a driving licence.

Martin

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