What is the point of buys a new boat?

[TiggerToo]

Having read the Northshore threads:

Why would anyone want to buy a new boat? When so many nice looking SH ones can be had. Shirley the refit costs, however high, are unlikely to go over the top of a new buy. Just the stress involved in the uncertainty is enough to put me off (anyway I would not have the money)

 

[Ripster]

Perhaps the ability to design and specify the boat to your own personal choice (within reason) and have all the latest new gear and kit can can be looked after in the way it should be from new. Yes, you are correct, the additional kit you want always drives the rpice up that bit further than expected.

 

[maby]

Well, in our case the availability of part exchange was the primary consideration. Our first and second boats were bought second hand and there was a slightly worrying period during which we owned two boats and were paying the marina fees on both. The forst boat was small and cheap and we were prepared to drop the price a lot to get a quick sale. When we upgraded from the second boat, it was worth a fair amount of money and was large enough that the marina fees to store it would have been significant. We didn't want to be without a boat for long, so selling before looking for the replacement was not an option, so we bought new and the dealer gave us a good PX valuation on the old boat.

The same was true for our recent upgrade - we saw one new boat that we quite liked at an attractive price, but the dealer was not interested in offering part exchange. We did give some thought to selling our current boat before buying the new one and it was actually in the course of talking to brokers about the chances of selling it that we became aware of the Beneteau from a dealer who was prepared to offer us PX. It was no-contest - we signed up for the Bene on the day that we saw it.

Being sure how the boat has been treated is also important. Just before we bought our first brand new boat, we came very close to buying a second hand AWB that was about five years old and appeared to be in good condition. In the course of a sea trial and survey, it became clear that the owner was hiding at least two potentially serious defects and we began to wonder what else was wrong with it. We pulled out, but the whole exercise still cost us close to a thousand in survey fees, lifting and relaunching and in travelling costs to see the boat, then to argue the toss over a refund of our deposit.

Buying new, you get the manufacturer's warranty. Also, if I run my boat aground and crack the keel joint, my insurance company will pay to repair it. If, having bought the boat, it becomes apparent that the previous owner ran it aground, then hid the damage, my insurance company will not want to know about it.

 

[sighmoon]

As this question appeared first on the Southerly thread, I have to say, I think the newer Southerlies look like better boats than the old ones, and I don't just mean aesthetics, but they look more sea worthy with two proper size rudders rather than one tiny one.

Before I'd consider it, I would have to be confident my savings could see me to the end of my life in fine style.

 

[photodog]

I guess if you want to get shot of large amounts of money by way of depreciation instantly... It's a good idea!

My experience of new boat ownership was that whilst the warranty covered any issues.... Getting anything done on via that warranty required threatening letters to the MD of the company.... And even when we sold the boat a substantial number of snags had still not been replaced.

There is very little that could not be repaired on a well surveyed used boat that would not be more than paid for by the differnce in price... And given the super value available on the previously loved market... Buying new just strikes me as bonkers.

We bought a 7 year old boat 7 years ago.... The new price now of its equivilant is twice what we paid... I just cannot see any real advantage of the new version...

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

I guess if you want to get shot of large amounts of money by way of depreciation instantly... It's a good idea!

My experience of new boat ownership was that whilst the warranty covered any issues.... Getting anything done on via that warranty required threatening letters to the MD of the company.... And even when we sold the boat a substantial number of snags had still not been replaced.

There is very little that could not be repaired on a well surveyed used boat that would not be more than paid for by the differnce in price... And given the super value available on the previously loved market... Buying new just strikes me as bonkers.

We bought a 7 year old boat 7 years ago.... The new price now of its equivilant is twice what we paid... I just cannot see any real advantage of the new version...

Not sure who you got your boat from but that didn't happen to me. Any snags were sorted straight away, and even after the warranty period anything that happened that was clearly a warranty thing was sorted just as quickly at no charge. Another good reason for buying British. No agents to deal with.

Having done it twice I can confirm that for us it was the ability to specify what we wanted exactly, and let's not forget the great fun that the build process itself is. Visiting the factory, talking with the build crew etc is a tremendous experience.

If you buy the right sort of boat, fom the right builder then depreciation is not a major issue if you time your disposal right. We sold both our boats for very close to what we paid for them. One after seven years, one after four.

Keep something like a Rustler 36 , a Rustler 42 or a Vancouver longer and they can sell for more than you paid for them. Yes, I know that inflation has an effect, but with virtually zero return on cash investments what else are you going to do with your money that gives more pleasure?

 

[maby]

I guess if you want to get shot of large amounts of money by way of depreciation instantly... It's a good idea!

My experience of new boat ownership was that whilst the warranty covered any issues.... Getting anything done on via that warranty required threatening letters to the MD of the company.... And even when we sold the boat a substantial number of snags had still not been replaced.

There is very little that could not be repaired on a well surveyed used boat that would not be more than paid for by the differnce in price... And given the super value available on the previously loved market... Buying new just strikes me as bonkers.

We bought a 7 year old boat 7 years ago.... The new price now of its equivilant is twice what we paid... I just cannot see any real advantage of the new version...

Aren't you lucky there are some bonkers people around - otherwise there would be no second hand boats for you to buy!

 

[Tranona]

There are as many reasons for buying a new boat as there are new boat buyers. In part it is driven by the capability to pay for it. If you have the money or can afford to borrow you have the choice. If you don't have the money you can't make that choice, nor necessarily understand the reasons why others make the choice.

A big driver of new boat sales in the halcyon days of the period 1998-2008 was the availability of cheap money, largely in the form of borrowing against equity in domestic property. Many people found they had equity of several 00's of thousands in their homes, low mortgage payments relative to income and seemingly secure jobs. Why not borrow £50k at 4% on an interest only basis with monthly payments of around £170? That would allow you easily to change your old Westerly for a brand new Bavaria 34 in 2000. In 2004 you could trade that in borrowing another £10k or so and move up to a 38 and so on. Other people were benefitting from redundancy payoffs or lump sums drawn from pensions giving them significant amounts of capital. Not surprising the output of the big AWB builders doubled in that period, helped of course by the boom in the charter market. In 2000 when I bought my new Bavaria the dealer in Greece had over 60 new boats delivered for the start of the season. This year I understand virtually none.

In 2008 that merry go round stopped and volumes are now 50% less. Difficult to borrow money, costs of new boats have risen faster than inflation made worse in the UK by the fall in the value of £ and there is a good supply of newer secondhand boats on the market for those smaller number of buyers who have the money to spare. A bit like cars though, the market may well come back if there is economic growth and the number of newish boats on the market falls as they get older. Then another boom cycle may start, but guess that supply is more likely to come from China than a resurgence in UK volume boat building.

 

[Roberto]

Why would anyone want to buy a new boat?

The ius primae noctis privilege of shedding about 30% of the value after the first night sleep aboard

 

[johnalison]

There isn't a clear answer to the question and you can make arguments for each side. I have usually kept my boats for upwards of fifteen years and was able to take advantage of knowing that most of the equipment, engine etc would last the course. Several of my friends have bought second-hand and been faced with large bills, mostly engines, but also including replacing rigging, sails, heater and so on.

On the other hand, buying a sound but scruffy boat second-hand can be a good investment if you have the ability to bring it up to a good standard, as one friend did with an old Nic 32, though he also needed a new engine.

 

[davidej]

Buying a high value new boat direct from the builder is a bit of a minority sport. Most new buyers have to get a production AWB from the local dealer.

Thus for most of us (happily) the northshore type problems shouldn't affect us

 

[andymcp]

When we bought our first proper boat, we had to go second hand because the new ones being built at the time didn't tick the boxes we wanted. And while we're happy with a dinghy just now and going racing and cruising on other people's yachts, when we do look at the new builds we're struggling to see one that fits for us. If we can afford new when we buy again then I would happily go that route. But a lot of boats new to production are also appearing on brokerage very quickly, and at substantial discount.

For our wish-list, the magic period seems to have been 1998 to 2004. After that there seemed to be too many compromises on quality above and below decks, and too many pointless trinkets added. But I'm delighted that others are still going new and adding to the brokerage examples

 

[maby]

Buying a high value new boat direct from the builder is a bit of a minority sport. Most new buyers have to get a production AWB from the local dealer.

Thus for most of us (happily) the northshore type problems shouldn't affect us

Unless you buy the demonstrator, most AWB dealers will still expect a lot of the money well in advance of delivery.

 

[dunedin]

Nowadays a large part of the value is not in the GRP and alloy, but in things like machinery, electronics etc - which age more quickly than the basic boat, and can be a lot of hassle/ expense when things go wrong or need renewed.
So getting more like cars in terms of issues with older boats - and hence depreciation also

And like cars, perhaps better to buy 1-2 years old after teething troubles sorted but before wear and tear starts

 

[Tranona]

Buying a high value new boat direct from the builder is a bit of a minority sport. Most new buyers have to get a production AWB from the local dealer.

Thus for most of us (happily) the northshore type problems shouldn't affect us

Still potential risks, arguably greater, buying from a dealer unless it is a stock boat. If the boat has to be built then you may well have to make stage payments without security. That was the heart of the Peters case. The dealer has to make payment to the builder before the boat is delivered and long before you make your final payment so you may end up as an unsecured creditor. Not a happy place to be and nowhere near as happy as the Northshore customers with boats in build - at least they own what has been built so far. Another little wrinkle you may well find the dealer does not even own the stock boat, but it is financed by a bank so you have to be sure the bank does not still have a charge over it.

 

[lustyd]

shedding about 30% of the value after the first night sleep aboard

Well I've seen my boat advertised new at £1300 in 1969, the year of its manufacture. It's currently worth considerably more than that Obviously inflation comes into play but if I spent £100k and got back £100k after enjoying a boat for 10 years then I wouldn't be bothered that my new £100k was only worth £90k due to inflation.

I think the issue is that most of us couldn't get the funding and maintain payments rather than that we don't consider it "worth it". Anyone who doesn't think it's worth the money is IMHO not enjoying boating as much as they should be.

 

[johnphilip]

Having read the Northshore threads:

Why would anyone want to buy a new boat? When so many nice looking SH ones can be had. Shirley the refit costs, however high, are unlikely to go over the top of a new buy. Just the stress involved in the uncertainty is enough to put me off (anyway I would not have the money)

I do not know what Shirley has to do with it?
My argument against a new boat always used to be that they were sold almost bareboat and the amount of gear you had to add would bump up the price by 10 or 15K. I think now that there tends to be more included in the deal from many manufacturers although the argument still has some validity.

However like with having a deep keel on the East Coast I often don't practice what I preach and we bought pretty much new in 2006. Had I known what the economy had in store a year or two later and its effect on our income I probably would not have gone ahead. Having thoroughly enjoyed the boat for seven seasons I feel that the benefit has been worthwhile. The longer we keep her the less the admittedly heavy initial depreciation will hurt.
Love sailing, love boat, wife happy, all is well with the world.

 

[JesseLoynes]

Perhaps the reason to buy new is that a new boat can offer something that a secondhand can't? It might be performance, facilities, design, seaworthiness... All sorts of things. Just as much reason to buy a new boat as a new car. I might not be able to afford one just now, but I'd certainly have one if I could.

Particularly good if you want something a little different to the standard AWB, changes to design can be made to suit you. I'm 6'5, how many boats have a berth long enough for me to be comfortable? Not many, but it would be easy enough to get a bunk lengthened in exchange for some cupboard space for example.

It takes all sorts, everyone has their preferences, and the easiest answer to the question is this: "Because they want to!"

 

[Whitelighter]

Sometimes you just can't buy what you want second hand.

I'm still looking at one new model and the ones second hand are few and far between, plus since its a niche boat there are quite a few foc customisable options that non of the few used examples meet our spec, and they are all asking pretty close to new money in some very out of the way places around Europe.

To get the boat we want we may HAVE to buy new since there isn't the choice second hand.