What is the max size of engine that can be fitted to an Enterprise dingy

[PhilCole]

I think you will find that a National 18 Classic is more stable than a Wayfarer.
It is also heavier. Minimum 290kg + 30kg centre-board for the GRP version. (Yes kg not lbs).

Do they actually float being so heavy. Archimedes summed it up.

 

[dunedin]

There is something special about them. Still being raced at a National level in sea water of all things!

Yes, been there, done that many years ago. BUT they are racing in a fleet with a second fleet of rescue boats- which do get used when the wind gets up and things get broken.
Indeed, I remember racing an open event at Tynemouth area when the waves got a bit fruity. Fine when racing but coming ashore wasn’t fine. Two boats flipped in surf broke their masts clean off, even with a team of catchers in wetsuits in the water to assist the incoming fleet.
And they didn’t have the added hindrance of the weight of an outboard at the back.

But clearly if choose weather very carefully an Enterprise can be used for coastal cruising by an experienced crew.
Assume you will carry a handheld VHF radio for emergencies, and plan your weather and route so you can get back ashore safely.

Back in the day they used smaller cruising sails for that purpose, particularly if sailing single handed. Genuine Enterprise cruising sails probably near Unobtainium these days, not least as most were probably cotton. But an eBay purchase smaller main from a smaller boat might be worth considering.
We discovered that trying to sail under jib only and dropping the main was near impossible, unless certain the route to shelter was a single broad road reach downwind. The sail and boom in the boat meant couldn’t get across the boat to balance in wind and waves.

Safe sailing.

 

[dunedin]

Think I'd rather trust the build quality of a good old enterprise than one of these modern rubbish plastic tubs

What is your basis for this?

Back in the day people like the late Dave Ovington lovingly crafted beautiful wooden Enterprises, as did Bill Bacon from the Grimsby area (anybody remember the adverts in Y&Y from SAIL REGISTER, who did a complete kit of Bacon boat, McNamara sails and all gear). Most of these boats are getting old now and may or may not have been well maintained (which needs a lot of varnishing).
But the early GRP boats weren’t great. Not much craftsmanship went into them - and designs for plywood with flat panels didn’t work well in GRP as tended to flex and crack.

By contrast many/most of the equivalent modern “plastic” boats are much better designed and engineered for modern materials and much better made.
The Ovington business now makes a wide range of superbly built boats - from 49er through to Solo and many in between.
And things like the RS400 (and older Laser 2000), which are perhaps modern equivalents of Enterprise for double handed club racing, are massively better built than an old GRP Enterprise.

So I think your reference to “modern rubbish plastic tubs” is not soundly based.

 

[PhilCole]

The Enterprize is a two man sailing dingy and the transom is not designed to take the load of an outboard so even though the structure looks strong enough its attachment to hull may require strengthening.

I agree it does, thanks.

 

[PhilCole]

Yes, been there, done that many years ago. BUT they are racing in a fleet with a second fleet of rescue boats- which do get used when the wind gets up and things get broken.
Indeed, I remember racing an open event at Tynemouth area when the waves got a bit fruity. Fine when racing but coming ashore wasn’t fine. Two boats flipped in surf broke their masts clean off, even with a team of catchers in wetsuits in the water to assist the incoming fleet.
And they didn’t have the added hindrance of the weight of an outboard at the back.

But clearly if choose weather very carefully an Enterprise can be used for coastal cruising by an experienced crew.
Assume you will carry a handheld VHF radio for emergencies, and plan your weather and route so you can get back ashore safely.

Back in the day they used smaller cruising sails for that purpose, particularly if sailing single handed. Genuine Enterprise cruising sails probably near Unobtainium these days, not least as most were probably cotton. But an eBay purchase smaller main from a smaller boat might be worth considering.
We discovered that trying to sail under jib only and dropping the main was near impossible, unless certain the route to shelter was a single broad road reach downwind. The sail and boom in the boat meant couldn’t get across the boat to balance in wind and waves.

Safe sailing.

I was looking into the price of a mobile device for relaying difficulties. Bought 2 spare main sails off eBay for £25 each, one like new. One has been reduced.

 

[PhilCole]

I was looking into the price of a mobile device for relaying difficulties. Bought 2 spare main sails off eBay for £25 each, one like new. One has been reduced. There is a seamstress on John Dobson street she is very helpful, highly recommended. I already had a dry suit and saw another on eBay with the zip delaminating. I won it for £35, otherwise it’s like new. We placed a little cement in between the fabrics and she made 3 passer all around on her machine followed by the addition of seam tape to the front and rear. What a bargain.

In the right circumstances and this is shunned by sailing clubs, I would use it as a fishing vessel, engine roaring. Like mentioned the rear certainly needs strengthening. I’m working towards mid March to venture out there.
Viewing the messages on Facebook, due to the strong winds at least 2 enterprise dinghy’s masts have snapped their supports and crashed down at Tynemouth sailing club. Could be more. Mine is in a storage unit awaiting for the new season. There I can work on it and strengthen the rear.
Being on the water offers several opportunities for enjoyment. Water also self drains from the rear of the boat.
Carrying a few thin planks would allow me to sleep on deck whilst touring the Holy land. Under a tarpaulin.
I love being out with my spotting scope, possibilities there to view the wildlife or astronomy since the Northumberland coast isn’t polluted with light, whilst relocating between destinations.
Even carry a small 12 kg scooter for mobility.
But I also love sailing, no motor attached.
Racing isn’t appealing though.

 

[PhilCole]

What is your basis for this?

Back in the day people like the late Dave Ovington lovingly crafted beautiful wooden Enterprises, as did Bill Bacon from the Grimsby area (anybody remember the adverts in Y&Y from SAIL REGISTER, who did a complete kit of Bacon boat, McNamara sails and all gear). Most of these boats are getting old now and may or may not have been well maintained (which needs a lot of varnishing).
But the early GRP boats weren’t great. Not much craftsmanship went into them - and designs for plywood with flat panels didn’t work well in GRP as tended to flex and crack.

By contrast many/most of the equivalent modern “plastic” boats are much better designed and engineered for modern materials and much better made.
The Ovington business now makes a wide range of superbly built boats - from 49er through to Solo and many in between.
And things like the RS400 (and older Laser 2000), which are perhaps modern equivalents of Enterprise for double handed club racing, are massively better built than an old GRP Enterprise.

So I think your reference to “modern rubbish plastic tubs” is not soundly based.

I was looking at R/S Feva’s but if sailing single handedly 80% of the time the spinnaker would never get used.

 

[PhilCole]

I was looking at R/S Feva’s but if sailing single handedly 80% of the time the spinnaker would never get used.

An Aero expensive for little gain.

 

[PhilCole]

An Aero expensive for little gain.

More cost effective having a fleet of boats,
One small yacht,
2 Dinghy’s and a
Kayak.

 

[PhilCole]

Yes, been there, done that many years ago. BUT they are racing in a fleet with a second fleet of rescue boats- which do get used when the wind gets up and things get broken.
Indeed, I remember racing an open event at Tynemouth area when the waves got a bit fruity. Fine when racing but coming ashore wasn’t fine. Two boats flipped in surf broke their masts clean off, even with a team of catchers in wetsuits in the water to assist the incoming fleet.
And they didn’t have the added hindrance of the weight of an outboard at the back.

But clearly if choose weather very carefully an Enterprise can be used for coastal cruising by an experienced crew.
Assume you will carry a handheld VHF radio for emergencies, and plan your weather and route so you can get back ashore safely.

Back in the day they used smaller cruising sails for that purpose, particularly if sailing single handed. Genuine Enterprise cruising sails probably near Unobtainium these days, not least as most were probably cotton. But an eBay purchase smaller main from a smaller boat might be worth considering.
We discovered that trying to sail under jib only and dropping the main was near impossible, unless certain the route to shelter was a single broad road reach downwind. The sail and boom in the boat meant couldn’t get across the boat to balance in wind and waves.

Safe sailing.

Even for the Feva you can buy training sails, canvas not Mylar with a reduced area.

 

[PhilCole]

Yes, been there, done that many years ago. BUT they are racing in a fleet with a second fleet of rescue boats- which do get used when the wind gets up and things get broken.
Indeed, I remember racing an open event at Tynemouth area when the waves got a bit fruity. Fine when racing but coming ashore wasn’t fine. Two boats flipped in surf broke their masts clean off, even with a team of catchers in wetsuits in the water to assist the incoming fleet.
And they didn’t have the added hindrance of the weight of an outboard at the back.

But clearly if choose weather very carefully an Enterprise can be used for coastal cruising by an experienced crew.
Assume you will carry a handheld VHF radio for emergencies, and plan your weather and route so you can get back ashore safely.

Back in the day they used smaller cruising sails for that purpose, particularly if sailing single handed. Genuine Enterprise cruising sails probably near Unobtainium these days, not least as most were probably cotton. But an eBay purchase smaller main from a smaller boat might be worth considering.
We discovered that trying to sail under jib only and dropping the main was near impossible, unless certain the route to shelter was a single broad road reach downwind. The sail and boom in the boat meant couldn’t get across the boat to balance in wind and waves.

Safe sailing.

When all those boats capsized off the Isle of Wight, was there enough boats processing with them to stop the fleet from getting wet? Big sails, trapezes and an inaccurate forecast can teach us all a good lesson. Precautions always need to be taken. A ship to shore device can save the day!

 

[gaylord694]

What is your basis for this?

Back in the day people like the late Dave Ovington lovingly crafted beautiful wooden Enterprises, as did Bill Bacon from the Grimsby area (anybody remember the adverts in Y&Y from SAIL REGISTER, who did a complete kit of Bacon boat, McNamara sails and all gear). Most of these boats are getting old now and may or may not have been well maintained (which needs a lot of varnishing).
But the early GRP boats weren’t great. Not much craftsmanship went into them - and designs for plywood with flat panels didn’t work well in GRP as tended to flex and crack.

By contrast many/most of the equivalent modern “plastic” boats are much better designed and engineered for modern materials and much better made.
The Ovington business now makes a wide range of superbly built boats - from 49er through to Solo and many in between.
And things like the RS400 (and older Laser 2000), which are perhaps modern equivalents of Enterprise for double handed club racing, are massively better built than an old GRP Enterprise.

So I think your reference to “modern rubbish plastic tubs” is not soundly based.

I wasn't referring to GRP dinghies I was referring to modern day yachts

 

[oldbloke]

The transom on an Enterprise is plenty strong enough for a small outboard motor. It was designed as a general purpose boat and hundreds of people have attached outboards. The stresses on the transom during a planing reach far outweigh those of an outboard.
2 issues though... Older wooden boats will have been glued with glue which will have lost its strength by now, and the vast majority will be fitted with plastic transom flaps which will break unless you make suitable packing to put between the boat and the motor.

 

[gaylord694]

The transom on an Enterprise is plenty strong enough for a small outboard motor. It was designed as a general purpose boat and hundreds of people have attached outboards. The stresses on the transom during a planing reach far outweigh those of an outboard.
2 issues though... Older wooden boats will have been glued with glue which will have lost its strength by now, and the vast majority will be fitted with plastic transom flaps which will break unless you make suitable packing to put between the boat and the motor.

Exactly.... As per usual to many people think they know better. Like I said in earlier post there better built than any crappy modern boat and there really good to sail

 

[PhilCole]

The transom on an Enterprise is plenty strong enough for a small outboard motor. It was designed as a general purpose boat and hundreds of people have attached outboards. The stresses on the transom during a planing reach far outweigh those of an outboard.
2 issues though... Older wooden boats will have been glued with glue which will have lost its strength by now, and the vast majority will be fitted with plastic transom flaps which will break unless you make suitable packing to put between the boat and the motor.

That’s true, placement needs careful consideration. Rudder function needs to be maintained also, since it will be primarily sailed. Use of the engine would be for fishing or negotiating rivers or ports. So which is my best option?

 

[PhilCole]

Exactly.... As per usual to many people think they know better. Like I said in earlier post there better built than any crappy modern boat and there really good to sail

An immaculately polished wood exterior really stands out, set against the rich blue sails and a blue hull. they are a very attractive and distinctive dinghy. Something worthy of taking pride in.

 

[dunedin]

I wasn't referring to GRP dinghies I was referring to modern day yachts

On a thread specifically about Enterprise dinghies, and you referring to Enterprises as the comparison in the same sentence?
Can you not leave your prejudices on yachts out of this thread, which is on a completely different type / size of boats?

For clarity, GayLord’s entire post was - “Think I'd rather trust the build quality of a good old enterprise than one of these modern rubbish plastic tubs”

 

[gaylord694]

Well if you care to read the posts instead of jumping the gun then it's not predudices at all on my behalf as someone before myself pointed it out! Sorry to point out to you by the way

 

[gaylord694]

My thoughts being that the enterprise dinghy is a solid built boat, with a little strengthening I see no reason why a 8-10hp engine couldn't be put on the back

 

[obmij]

I have a 10hp in a 26 foot sail boat. It can touch 7

Why bother with the faff of dinghy cruising then?