What is a motor-sailer?

[snowleopard]

If you say 'motor-sailer', the first thing most people think of is the likes of a Fisher or Colvic Watson.

What characteristics define the term for you?

 

[Arcady]

There was a discussion on what constitutes a 'motor sailer' as opposed to 'pilot house' yacht some weeks back on the FB motorsailer group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/motorsailers/) FWIW my effort was as follows (written with a Fjord MS33 in mind):

As far as I'm concerned, a motorsailer will have a fully functional inside helm position and it may or may not have an outside helm position. A pilothouse yacht will have an outside helm position and may have a fully functional inside helm position, or just a limited joystick/autopilot option. On a pilothouse yacht one should be able to see over the wheelhouse when helming from outside. On many motorsailers this is not possible. So - the Fjord is a motorsailer by some of those definitions, but a pilothouse yacht by others! (primarily the low profile wheelhouse).

 

[chubby]

If you say 'motor-sailer', the first thing most people think of is the likes of a Fisher or Colvic Watson.

What characteristics define the term for you?

A wheelhouse, wheel steering, heavy displacement long keel and often ketch rigged, big engine and undemanding rig. Of course lots of grey areas: a fixed windscreen and well engineered sprayhood are almost a wheel house and many other boats have generous sized engines. perhaps two subspecies: the fishers and colvic watsons are fishing boat type hulls. Others like my Barbary ketch and the neptunian and halbadier types have more long keel shapes not unlike a long keel sailing yacht of that era like a Rival.

 

[pvb]

My rather simplistic view is that the essential elements of a "motorsailer" are twofold. First, a larger than usual engine and fuel tank, to enable fairly enthusiastic motoring for some distance. Secondly, the ability to steer from within an enclosed protected area.

 

[mainsail1]

My rather simplistic view is that the essential elements of a "motorsailer" are twofold. First, a larger than usual engine and fuel tank, to enable fairly enthusiastic motoring for some distance. Secondly, the ability to steer from within an enclosed protected area.

+1

 

[elton]

I went on a memorable five day trip up the NE coast aboard a friend's Nauticat a couple of years ago. It was a fantastic and luxurious boat, that seemed to make no compromises for its flexibility. The only trouble was that he refused to sail without the engine running, which took the sheen of it a bit for me, because one of the things I love about sailing, is feeling the drive from the wind. Also, the exhaust often blew back and we all got poisoned

The voyage: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151707978599303.1073741826.700039302&type=1&l=655ddc3951

 

[Halcyon Yachts]

 

[gertha]

A surveyor once explained.
If a sailing boat will not sail closer than 90 to the wind under sail it is not a sail boat. i.e. sail off a lee shore.
A Fisher will not make better than 90, so he classed it a motor sailor.
He was happy to call it a motor boat; but as it had sails there was the compromise.

 

[Greg2]

I went on a memorable five day trip up the NE coast aboard a friend's Nauticat a couple of years ago. It was a fantastic and luxurious boat, that seemed to make no compromises for its flexibility. The only trouble was that he refused to sail without the engine running, which took the sheen of it a bit for me, because one of the things I love about sailing, is feeling the drive from the wind. Also, the exhaust often blew back and we all got poisoned

The voyage: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151707978599303.1073741826.700039302&type=1&l=655ddc3951

Isn’t that a Nauticat Pilothouse? A bit different from their Motorsailer, both in design and sailing performance according to reviews.

 

[jwilson]

A powerful, well silenced engine, a rig and hull strengthened a bit in expectation of battering to windward in a sea, possibly a interior helm option, but no reason not to be able to sail very well indeed: could have a big efficient rig, a deep bulbed fin and a spade rudder or two.

 

[johnalison]

I too have a loose appreciation of the definition, and as far as I am concerned, pilot house boats form a subset of motor-sailors, which themselves are a subset of sailing boats. I don't see an inside helm position as essential to a motor-sailor but for the life of me I can't think of one without. For me, a motor-sailor is simply a sailing yacht where sailing ability has been sacrificed in favour of better motoring performance, and usually accomodation. There are some hulls which masquerade as both sailing yachts and motor-sailors in different forms, so I choose not to fret about it.

 

[LittleSister]

To some extent the term motor-sailer is a hangover from the days when a sailing yacht's motor (if it had one) was very definitely auxiliary, and not something one would (or could) motor far in.

Modern lightweight engines and more spacious yachts have rendered most non-racing yachts very capable 'motor sailers'.

At the same time work has been done refining the rigs and hulls of motor-sailers, so that some (perhaps many) are quite capable sailers.

I'd suggest that a capacity to sail or motor comfortably, a wheelhouse or other inside steering position, and a general leaning towards comfort over performance would probably capture most things most people would want to call a motor-sailer.

And then there are pilothouse yachts - the motor-sailer that dare not speak its name!

p.s. I'd be worried if my sailer or motor-sailer couldn't make 90 degrees to the wind!

 

[LittleSister]

I too have a loose appreciation of the definition, and as far as I am concerned, pilot house boats form a subset of motor-sailors, which themselves are a subset of sailing boats. I don't see an inside helm position as essential to a motor-sailor but for the life of me I can't think of one without. For me, a motor-sailor is simply a sailing yacht where sailing ability has been sacrificed in favour of better motoring performance, and usually accomodation. There are some hulls which masquerade as both sailing yachts and motor-sailors in different forms, so I choose not to fret about it.

+1

 

[Uricanejack]

My boat is a sailboat with a motor.
I mostly sail, If I feel like putting the motor on I motor.

Motor sailor. Or Sail/ Motorer ?

 

[catmandoo]

I Suppose I have one . A catfisher! The way I look at it is this . Want to go some where in the shortest time so I motor . If the wind is in the right direction I put up the sails and thus increase speed and at the same time save some fuel

 

[Dutch01527]

My Dehler Duetta 86 (28 foot) is described by the excellent and normally accurate Yachtsnet website as a motor sailer. As far as I can see it is a pretty conventional 1980’s cruiser / cruiser racer. Reasonably sleek hull profile, fractional rig, fin keel and reasonable to good upwind performance. Sails as well at all points of sail as it’s contempories, excluding out and out racing boats in my opinion.

It does not have a internal helm, pilot house or anything motor sailerish except a 25hp engine, wheel steering, large saloon for it’s length and a 100 litre fuel tank. Perhaps that was enough to be classified as a motor sailer in the 1980’s but would now be seen as pretty standard I guess.

 

[Iain C]

+1 with it being entirely a performance thing. A pilot house yacht is uncompromised below the gunwale as a proper sailing vessel, capable of sailing properly to windward, with just a roomier saloon due to the superstucture. A motorsailer will be much tubbier, with the hull sharing far more characteristics with a pure motor boat. Perfomance will be slow, the unless the fairly powerful engine is running, and windward perfomance will be pretty non-existant.

 

[Uricanejack]

Macgregor 19?

 

[jwilson]

Imagine an Arcona 430 or similar quite high performance cruising yacht. Add a lowish profile pilothouse with interior engine and autopilot controls: the pilothouse would fit under the existing boom/kicker and leave wide sidedecks. Put in a bigger engine - say 55hp instead of existing 39hp, obviously with a feathering prop, and a larger fuel tank under the raised pilothouse part of the altered saloon. You have a motor-sailer that will perform very well indeed under both sail and power.

As others have said motor-sailers have evolved - the Kemrock ( http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives/kemrock-channel-30/kemrock-30.htm ) was perhaps a 60:40 motor/sailer (40% sailing ability). Then you had the Halmatic 8.80s ( http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives/halmatic-880/halmatic-880.htm ) which were maybe 60:60, and the LM yachts ( eg http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/boats/w69817/w69817.htm ) which were 90:90 or better. My imaginary "Arcona 43DS" would definitely be 100:100 - a definite motor-sailer that could be first across the line in many sailing club races.

 

[Quandary]

Can't agree with that, your Arcona is still a yacht, the engine size and raised saloon do not change that, the Nicholson 38 was a yacht as are most Moodys.