What is a motor sailer?

PhillM said:
Sorry but I cannot agree. I don't think you have any idea about what sort of boat you want until you have owned at least one. Only through the process of ownership will you learn anything like enough to discover what is really important to you. So, my advice is find a small / cheap / old but seaworthy boat and get out there. In a couple of years you will know what you really want and then you can trade in / up / down and buy your ideal boat.
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I have to disagree with that. The one thing I know I don't want is a small cheap boat. I'd perhaps consider a small boat as a day sailer but I can't justify the expense of moorings, etc. down here and I prefer to sail with company anyway. That means it makes sense for me to charter and crew during the year. If I didn't live in one of the most expensive areas in the UK to keep a boat I'd consider buying my own if I could keep the annual costs sensible but living in Bournemouth there's no way it makes sense.
 
We own a good design, there are rubbish ones like there are rubbish cruiser racers and rubbish cruisers. Buy a first yacht that comes from a design that's sold hundreds which is some testament to its quality.

A good motor sailer should sail well and motor well. All other performance issues come down to other design factors; long keel and it won't go to windward as well as the equivalent fin keeler; heavy displacement means it won't sail fast in light airs. Wheelhouse gives an extra room, pilot house gives a larger saloon.

The term motor sailer has a special meaning on YBW forums it's defined as "I don't think they sail well", like Bavaria means "won't it's keel fall off?", catamaran means "it'll tip over", Oyster means "overpriced" and Westerley "don't they all have osmosis?".

General catch all terms don't mean much, I sailed as a nipper on my dad's bilge keel Hurley 22 which was marketed as a cruiser-racer, which no one would call it now. The Contessa 26 and 32 were sold as family cruisers despite the 32 being the longest yacht to be designed without a separate heads compartment. I'd add my own fairly meaningless definition of motor sailer: "probably a good boat for a young family".
 
vjmehra said:
Excuse my ignorance here, but what is the definition of a motor sailer, is it simply a yacht with a pilot house, presumably they are displacement boats, hence its not a reference to improved performance under power (vs a standard yacht with similar engine for its size I mean)?
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Motor Sailor:
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Sailing Boat:
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So where does this fit in?
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To me a motor sailor is a boat that I does not make efficient way to windward without an engine...

Dose not make them bad boats just means that unless you have very good conditions (flat water and good wind speeds), once the wind gets a point or two forward of the beam you are going to use the iron top sail..
 
Lazy Kipper said:
A good motor sailer should sail well and motor well. All other performance issues come down to other design factors; long keel and it won't go to windward as well as the equivalent fin keeler; heavy displacement means it won't sail fast in light airs. Wheelhouse gives an extra room, pilot house gives a larger saloon.
The term motor sailer has a special meaning on YBW forums it's defined as "I don't think they sail well", like Bavaria means "won't it's keel fall off?", catamaran means "it'll tip over", Oyster means "overpriced" and Westerley "don't they all have osmosis?".
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Ain't that just the truth ...

After 50 years of working my way up through small to big dinghies, small cruiser-racers then a Trapper 500, I bought a 'motor-sailor', a HR94, the only motor-sailor HR ever made. She has a full form carried aft but still ends with a canoe stern, so no aft cabin but loads of storage in a typical, old-style saloon and fore-cabin, which suits me ideally; the taste and comfort below are palpable - I cannot wonder where all the "dark and dank" references are aimed at.

Despite the matronly girth, dog-house windage and heavy lay-up she sails remarkably well at any wind-speed above 6 knots and even hard on the wind - okay, with more leeway than I used to get with the Trapper. So well that when I go cruising with my two buddies, one with a Comar Comet 11 and the other a Sparkman & Stephans 34, we usually stay quite well-grouped and arrive at our destination within short time differences. And I'm usually the only one of us single-handers who has prepared a proper meal underway.

Edit: Forgot to add that when we are anchored at our destination, the other two come to me for the evening meal and comfortable cockpit socialising.

I know it's not for many and the dog-house looks a bit of an afterthought (but immensely practicable); I just wonder why it took me so long to find my ideal boat.

HR945.jpg
 
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I fail to understand why so most sailors harp on about the performance reductions of a pilothouse yet leave a sprayhood and dodgers permanently in place?

When did you last see a boat with the sprayhood put down and dodgers removed to assist performance while beating into a strong wind? (belting around the cans excepted)

A well designed wheelhouse/pilothouse could offer less windage than a sprayhood and the helmsman might be saved from frostbite. However of course, many of us probably rely on mild hypothermia to stay awake throughout a night watch...
 
Mine is 34 foot heavy displacement long keel ketch rigged-her lines above water are very MFV but clearly some considerable thought has gone into her underwater profile.Clearly as such she is not a racing yacht but happily sails along at a reasonable speed in all conditions her only failing being that her high profile catches the wind and can be a pain sometimes..
These days her 40hp Mercedes Diesel is not that big but when built in the late 1970s would have catagorised her as a Motor Sailer.
Great as a cruiser live aboard with vast amounts of internal space and feels very safe when out at sea.
Not like some of Fishers et al with their big engines and small sail area.
 
SAPurdie said:
I fail to understand why so most sailors harp on about the performance reductions of a pilothouse yet leave a sprayhood and dodgers permanently in place?
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Usually sprayhood is lower and smaller than typical motorsailer wheelhouse, not for standing headroom or for whole cockpit.
But as for performance - on modern boat, rather fast, we tried once when close-hauled. Taking dodger down gave half a knot and some 3 deg closer to the wind. Taking that "sprayclothes" - or however you call them - from rail gave another fraction of knot and couple of degrees up...

So why people keep them permanently? Beats me, really. Maybe with flat needle nosed boats spraying water all over and all that electronics they cherish - to keep those gadgets dry? :confused:
 
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Gosh, half a knot and 3 degrees closer to the wind. What an improvement - certainly worth the exposure to wind and spray for an hour or two of fun sailing upwind. Not sure the benefits outweigh the drawbacks over a long day where ones priorities might be slightly different.
 
claymore said:
Gosh, half a knot and 3 degrees closer to the wind. What an improvement - certainly worth the exposure to wind and spray for an hour or two of fun sailing upwind. Not sure the benefits outweigh the drawbacks over a long day where ones priorities might be slightly different.
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That might halve some of my passage times :0)
 
claymore said:
Gosh, half a knot and 3 degrees closer to the wind. What an improvement - certainly worth the exposure to wind and spray for an hour or two of fun sailing upwind. Not sure the benefits outweigh the drawbacks over a long day where ones priorities might be slightly different.
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Agree - it tends to be those passages when we're hard on the wind, with a head sea that we NEED the spray-hood; otherwise, we get soaked from spray over the bow! I do drop it when possible, but realistically it is sometimes necessary to make the cockpit habitable.
 
A real relief, than. My sweet has more sail then HP :D
but then again only 'cause engine is set for lower power, normally can have much more...
so afraid still I fall down deeply into category :(
Lazy Kipper said:
The term motor sailer has a special meaning on YBW forums it's defined as "I don't think they sail well"
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:cool:
 
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Voyager 35 has same hull as the warrior and challenger and the same rig. Sails very well and motors very well. Maybe doesn't point as high as a cruiser / racer but nice and solid bags of room and storage and really good motoring or sailing from the pilot house with the diesel heater on when the weather is cold and wet outside!
 
tcm said:
to answer the question .... a motorsailer is generally defined as a sailing boat with less (normal, full) sail area in sq m than the engine power in hp
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Love it, that's the fourth definition that's stated as "generally", "normally" or "usually" in the thread, so I guess a motor sailer is what you want it to be. We wanted one so we bought one :)
 
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