Channel Ribs
Well-Known Member
For smaller (up to 40') boats, bearing in mind the broker needs something in order to be able to effectively advertise and document your vessel...
What is a fair brokerage percentage?
- Thread starter Channel Ribs
- Start date
Sneds
Well-Known Member
I voted 5%
Or maybe a fixed fee?
Depends on the value of the boat i guess
Or maybe a fixed fee?
Depends on the value of the boat i guess
Channel Ribs
Well-Known Member
Five seems very popular at the moment. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Doesn't a percentage mean that the broker is motivated to get a better price? I would worry that they were encouraging silly offers just to get the cash commission and move onto the next seller.
Doesn't a percentage mean that the broker is motivated to get a better price? I would worry that they were encouraging silly offers just to get the cash commission and move onto the next seller.
Major Catastrophe
Well-Known Member
Depends on the economic conditions. At the moment you can sell a house through an estate agent for peanuts.
fireball
Well-Known Member
Have you actually looked at the cash difference between a % ?? It isn't much ...
We have put our boat with a broker and unless we can get a private sale who hasn't picked up the details from them they'll be getting 4% .... we have to add VAT onto that (which isn't mentioned - nor have you mentioned it above!) and storage..
4% is still a significant sum, for which they list the boat on their website(s) .... which really is 1/2hr admin task, have the details ready for punters (again - 1/2hr admin task), show them around, pass through any offers, then sort out the contracts at the end of a successful deal.
The time consuming bit will be showing punters around - as they do not do unattended visits - however, we are putting the boat in the marina they reside in so they shouldn't be put off from showing our fine vessel!!
We have put our boat with a broker and unless we can get a private sale who hasn't picked up the details from them they'll be getting 4% .... we have to add VAT onto that (which isn't mentioned - nor have you mentioned it above!) and storage..
4% is still a significant sum, for which they list the boat on their website(s) .... which really is 1/2hr admin task, have the details ready for punters (again - 1/2hr admin task), show them around, pass through any offers, then sort out the contracts at the end of a successful deal.
The time consuming bit will be showing punters around - as they do not do unattended visits - however, we are putting the boat in the marina they reside in so they shouldn't be put off from showing our fine vessel!!
KevB
Well-Known Member
Is there more advertising involved in selling a boat than a house? Probably not. So I'd go for less than 2% if there was an option for it.
Can never understand why boat brokers expect more money than estate agents. After all they are doing a similar job.
Can never understand why boat brokers expect more money than estate agents. After all they are doing a similar job.
Richard Shead
Slipped Anchor
I have contributed to this thread many times, a good broker with a premises / yard deserves 8%.....running for cover
FullCircle
Well-Known Member
Another vote for 5%
I would pay more for guaranteed services, like valeting, escorted viewings, bold headings in advertising, storage etc.
I would pay more for guaranteed services, like valeting, escorted viewings, bold headings in advertising, storage etc.
Nick_Pam
Well-Known Member
5% as long as they proactively market, valet, escort prospective purchasers and manage the sale properly, including making sure the %&$£ paperwork is correct!!.
Magnum
RIP
3% max. Brokers are massively overpaid IMO.
fireball
Well-Known Member
Well - if the storage is included ....
gjgm
Well-Known Member
well, lets just consider that. Not , how much of a living does the broker have to make, but what return on costs and effort.
You can set up a web page,advertise privately, set up an email a/c, show people around for almost nothing. So, if the boat(40ft) costs, say £200k.. quite what are you paying £16k for? Having the marketing skills? oooohhhh, I get it now...every head of marketing is worth every penny arf arf... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
No, the only reason for 8pct is bcz there are so many brokers that they sell so few each. 8pct is totally outrageous, as they are about to find out in this climate.
You can set up a web page,advertise privately, set up an email a/c, show people around for almost nothing. So, if the boat(40ft) costs, say £200k.. quite what are you paying £16k for? Having the marketing skills? oooohhhh, I get it now...every head of marketing is worth every penny arf arf... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
No, the only reason for 8pct is bcz there are so many brokers that they sell so few each. 8pct is totally outrageous, as they are about to find out in this climate.
Garryt
Well-Known Member
I imagine brokers put the same effort in as estate agents....
Some are good, others not so good!
They could offer different packages for different prices, although to be fair, they must have a way of recouping the advertising costs, some of which go on for well over a year!
Some are good, others not so good!
They could offer different packages for different prices, although to be fair, they must have a way of recouping the advertising costs, some of which go on for well over a year!
Channel Ribs
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Some are good, others not so good!
[/ QUOTE ]
But surely there is a base line service?...
1) Help collect information/inventory the boat
2) Offer advice about selling price and market conditions
3) Draw up a professional specification
4) Advertise or otherwise contact possible buyers
5) Communicate (again - professionally) with enquirers
6) Provide good sale paperwork and escrow financial facility
That to me is worth a something.
Some are good, others not so good!
[/ QUOTE ]
But surely there is a base line service?...
1) Help collect information/inventory the boat
2) Offer advice about selling price and market conditions
3) Draw up a professional specification
4) Advertise or otherwise contact possible buyers
5) Communicate (again - professionally) with enquirers
6) Provide good sale paperwork and escrow financial facility
That to me is worth a something.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Look at it from the other end. There are very few localities that can support a large number of brokers in relation to the number of transactions. What is the main complaint about the S/H boat market? Boats are overpriced and therefore do not sell. Have a look at a typical broker's ads over a period of time and you will see the same boats for months on end. So to get sufficient sales to earn a living a broker has to take on as many boats as possible, knowing that a high proportion of owners are actually not interested in selling, or who are asking a price that will never be achieved.
Being a broker (which I am not) is not a path to endless riches, but a job where you can earn a decent living, provided you are prepared to put up with recalcitrant owners and endless tyre kicking bargain hunters!
Being a broker (which I am not) is not a path to endless riches, but a job where you can earn a decent living, provided you are prepared to put up with recalcitrant owners and endless tyre kicking bargain hunters!
oceanfroggie
Well-Known Member
Not much for sticking an entry in a few web sites.
christianmoore
Member
Wow this is brave commenting on this thread as a broker. I have read through this with interest and taken on board the various comments. I have to say that I respect everyone’s opinion however the brokers job is not always as easy as everyone thinks.
I think one of the biggest problems is that the role of a broker has changed with more and more people thinking it’s a good and easy job to do. You don't have to be regulated, you don't have to know anything about boats and you can start up with no experience.
I now run a dedicated brokerage and work only to sell boats that I have listed. I don't have stock or new products that I have to sell as a priority and I have worked my way up as an apprentice in marine electronics and working for various well known new boat companies before opening my brokerage in 2004. I am an active member of ABYA (Association for Brokers & Yacht Agents) and follow their code of Practice.
The Industry standard rates for brokerage are 8% plus VAT in the UK and 10% plus VAT in the Med. In this modern day and age where information is so easy to get it is almost impossible to gain these kind of commissions and I think that anyone in business has to take a view and be sensible according to the situation. There are still some brokers who will not budge on these rates and can make it very hard for you to sell your boat if it is in their marina.
The brokers job is to list the vessel, prepare details, advertise the boat, deal with and qualify the enquiries, arrange viewings, make sure all the title paperwork is in order, make sure the correct agreement for the sale is used and filled out properly, act as legal representative and negotiate the sale through to completion, deal with finance companies and responsibly handle funds and title paperwork with all the correct procedures in place.
The first part of the above usually takes two days by the time you have travelled to the boat, gone through the specification and checked it, taken pictures, returned to the office, sorted through everything and loaded the information onto your system, prepared the details and agreement and sent them off to the owner, loaded the specification onto the several different websites that you use and arranged for the boat to be included in your advertising schedule. All of this can be done and the owner could sell the boat privately or through another broker and you don’t get a penny for your efforts.
The above explains only the first part and believe me some of these deals can be very long and drawn out especially when the boat is abroad and you are dealing with one party that isn’t bothered if he sells his boat and doesn’t need the money and the other party who can go out and buy any example that he wants and is actually doing you a favour buying the boat in the current market climate (This climate has been the same for the last 18 years that I have been involved in the marine industry!!!!). Bear in mind that any expenses or flights etc all come out f the brokers pocket with no guarantee that they will get anything back.
In summary, I think that everyone is entitled to earn a living and I know that I don’t earn any more than solicitors or estate agents that deal with the same value of luxury goods or have to do as much work for their fees. I’m in no way complaining because I love my job, I always try and give a good service and always try and be flexible and realistic, but any broker that does the job properly has to have a cut off point to make it worthwhile.
You can find a list of ABYA recognised brokers on their website and it is worthwhile speaking to few to make sure that you are comfortable with the broker that you deal with.
Thanks for taking the time to read and I hope that the feedback is useful and constructive.
I think one of the biggest problems is that the role of a broker has changed with more and more people thinking it’s a good and easy job to do. You don't have to be regulated, you don't have to know anything about boats and you can start up with no experience.
I now run a dedicated brokerage and work only to sell boats that I have listed. I don't have stock or new products that I have to sell as a priority and I have worked my way up as an apprentice in marine electronics and working for various well known new boat companies before opening my brokerage in 2004. I am an active member of ABYA (Association for Brokers & Yacht Agents) and follow their code of Practice.
The Industry standard rates for brokerage are 8% plus VAT in the UK and 10% plus VAT in the Med. In this modern day and age where information is so easy to get it is almost impossible to gain these kind of commissions and I think that anyone in business has to take a view and be sensible according to the situation. There are still some brokers who will not budge on these rates and can make it very hard for you to sell your boat if it is in their marina.
The brokers job is to list the vessel, prepare details, advertise the boat, deal with and qualify the enquiries, arrange viewings, make sure all the title paperwork is in order, make sure the correct agreement for the sale is used and filled out properly, act as legal representative and negotiate the sale through to completion, deal with finance companies and responsibly handle funds and title paperwork with all the correct procedures in place.
The first part of the above usually takes two days by the time you have travelled to the boat, gone through the specification and checked it, taken pictures, returned to the office, sorted through everything and loaded the information onto your system, prepared the details and agreement and sent them off to the owner, loaded the specification onto the several different websites that you use and arranged for the boat to be included in your advertising schedule. All of this can be done and the owner could sell the boat privately or through another broker and you don’t get a penny for your efforts.
The above explains only the first part and believe me some of these deals can be very long and drawn out especially when the boat is abroad and you are dealing with one party that isn’t bothered if he sells his boat and doesn’t need the money and the other party who can go out and buy any example that he wants and is actually doing you a favour buying the boat in the current market climate (This climate has been the same for the last 18 years that I have been involved in the marine industry!!!!). Bear in mind that any expenses or flights etc all come out f the brokers pocket with no guarantee that they will get anything back.
In summary, I think that everyone is entitled to earn a living and I know that I don’t earn any more than solicitors or estate agents that deal with the same value of luxury goods or have to do as much work for their fees. I’m in no way complaining because I love my job, I always try and give a good service and always try and be flexible and realistic, but any broker that does the job properly has to have a cut off point to make it worthwhile.
You can find a list of ABYA recognised brokers on their website and it is worthwhile speaking to few to make sure that you are comfortable with the broker that you deal with.
Thanks for taking the time to read and I hope that the feedback is useful and constructive.
Nick_H
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
everyone is entitled to earn a living
[/ QUOTE ]
This seems to be the brokers main argument for the high fees. There aren't many boat sales to go round, so we all only sell a few, so the rates have to be high 'cos everyone is entitled to make a living. The other way of looking at it, is that you chose to open a business in a sector where the barriers to entry are so low, and supply (of the brokerage service) massively exceeds demand, yet you still expect a good return. With the low volume of sales it should be an incremental business attached to a marine service company, marina etc, where most the overheads are already covered, and a 2% margin on brokerage is just one revenue stream. I don't know how much longer brokers will get away with it.
everyone is entitled to earn a living
[/ QUOTE ]
This seems to be the brokers main argument for the high fees. There aren't many boat sales to go round, so we all only sell a few, so the rates have to be high 'cos everyone is entitled to make a living. The other way of looking at it, is that you chose to open a business in a sector where the barriers to entry are so low, and supply (of the brokerage service) massively exceeds demand, yet you still expect a good return. With the low volume of sales it should be an incremental business attached to a marine service company, marina etc, where most the overheads are already covered, and a 2% margin on brokerage is just one revenue stream. I don't know how much longer brokers will get away with it.
jfm
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that CTM - all points taken. From your experience, what percentage of potential customers (the ones you spend time with showing them the boat or whatever) are just tyre kickers and what percentage genuinely can and want to buy a boat? Likewise, what percentage of owners are serious about selling? I'm interested in this, becuase I can imagine a lot of your time can be wasted on tyrekickers and that needs to be factored in to your pricing
christianmoore
Member
It all comes down to qualification, its harder assesing the buyers and you can waste a bit of time, sometimes they are serious buyers but they obviously want to have a look around or are influenced by outside factors like the recent credit crunch, so will wait a little while before commiting. I think that most sellers are serious, but you normally have to go through the not bothered about selling routine when it comes down to negotiating and being serious about selling the boat.
Anyway, off to do a viewing now, so might be able to give you a better answer after.........
Anyway, off to do a viewing now, so might be able to give you a better answer after.........
