What if we were forced back to the dark ages?

[jonjo]

The real elephant is reluctance to recognise that this wouldn't be a bit of boy scout fun playing at self-sufficiency. Survival would have nothing to do with ability to make fires by rubbing sticks together or learning how to smelt metal. For the first 50 years survival would be by membership of one of the murderous gangs and managing to be useful enough to one of the ruthless gang leaders so that he spared your life.

Page 8 and finally someone gets it.

I have been laughing at all the ex. boy scout free bus pass holders talking about bunny rabbits and making rope, while disparaging the Facebook generation. The Facebook generation will eat you metaphorically or literally.

Essentially if you are over 55 you have had it as the UK population drops 90% within a year. In a broken primitive society executive power is held by those between 40 and 50.

Our destroyed society would leave behind vast amounts of material goods so no one will have to fabricate rope for 50 to 100 years. Survival comes down to control of the abandoned material wealth. Years 50 to 200 would be interesting as a world population of 1 billion re-advances quickly based on prior knowledge but in a world where the easy natural resources were extracted a 100 years before.

In practice the apocalyptic collapse is unlikely instead we will see a quick decline in UK living standards not replicated everywhere else. Expect a political schism in the UK based on an intergenerational divide within 10 years and emergency food parcels from Australia within 20.

 

[sarabande]

JJ5 some intriguing ideas there. Are these available in a more detailed form please ?

I agree with the abundance of material goods, but it's a question of getting your hands on the right kind of goods within the first few days, unless you have a stock already.


Yours sincerely

Sarabande

Holder of Bus Pass, and bar














and various supplies

 

[Searush]

And the water shortages in densely populated Middle Eastern & African countries? Water wars are widely expected to lead to a massive refugee exodus into Europe & lead to the collapse of civil structures.

The great beauty of being a pensioner is that I will likely be gone before all this lot really kicks off. So it will be down to you kids to sort it all out. Good luck guys.

 

[Lady Campanula]

Page 8 and finally someone gets it.

I have been laughing at all the ex. boy scout free bus pass holders talking about bunny rabbits and making rope, while disparaging the Facebook generation. The Facebook generation will eat you metaphorically or literally.

Essentially if you are over 55 you have had it as the UK population drops 90% within a year. In a broken primitive society executive power is held by those between 40 and 50.

Our destroyed society would leave behind vast amounts of material goods so no one will have to fabricate rope for 50 to 100 years. Survival comes down to control of the abandoned material wealth. Years 50 to 200 would be interesting as a world population of 1 billion re-advances quickly based on prior knowledge but in a world where the easy natural resources were extracted a 100 years before.

In practice the apocalyptic collapse is unlikely instead we will see a quick decline in UK living standards not replicated everywhere else. Expect a political schism in the UK based on an intergenerational divide within 10 years and emergency food parcels from Australia within 20.

"Velly intellesting - but stoopid!"

Consider the average age of all recent ruthless dictators in societies primitive and otherwise. Mugabe? Amin? Sadam? Gadaffi? Kim Il Jong? Ahmadinajad will qualify for 55+ quite shortly.

It seems that practice and experience is needed to survive other than short-term as a ruthless dictator. I suspect, in the scenario described, quite a lot of would-be warlords would be 'offed' in the transition period by their rivals, until some sort of regional critical mass emerged. Much like mediaeval barons.

Those most vulnerable will be those with young children to protect. Those least vulnerable will have no children, or be 'empty nesters' with their health/capabilities intact. And who have been trained to shoot....

I'm of the view that one should make oneself a 'hard target'. The crims will then usually go seek someone easier....

'Walk softly and carry a big stick'.

 

[Conachair]

Possibly many of us are not genetically destined to survive. In guns , germs and steel Jared Diamond suggests that in hunter, gatherer societies (such as those still in existing in New Guinea) the genes for intellegence are high on the list for selection, whilst in traditional European societies death came from disease so that was a factor for selection, he gives the example of bloodgroups B or O having a greater resistance to smallpox. But being a bit thick is OK. He also talks briefly about nearly all child development studies emphasizing stimulation and activity to be important in childhood development, so the New Guinians are ahead there as well, not having spent years doing nothing but watching tele.
SO I wonder if an armegeddan type event would result in a few generations of rapid genetic change. Lets face it, walk around a large shopping centre and there are a lot of people who are really not up at the leading edge of genetic health for survival outside a modern industrial society. Apart from us lot, of course.

 

[jonjo]

"Velly intellesting - but stoopid!"

Consider the average age of all recent ruthless dictators in societies primitive and otherwise. Mugabe? Amin? Sadam? Gadaffi? Kim Il Jong? Ahmadinajad will qualify for 55+ quite shortly.

The dictators you name have used 20th century mass media to take control of functioning nation states. If a solar storm knocks out 70% of the world's power grids and fries loads of consumer electrics, the world we know would quickly unravel.

Look at the wobble in the UK following a week or so of union fuel taxation protests at refineries. Roll that scenario on for a 1 month when the refineries are actually empty, add intermittent power supply and a Government struggling to communicate with both the people & its employees then our world will fall apart.

At the height of the credit crunch grain shipments got stuck in the docks because the bankers lost confidence in issuing letter of credit for international trade. That was triggered only by perceptions of global financial health, now imagine how the system would completely fail with flaky mains power, fried banking computers, a 2 month GDP contraction of 70% and Governments talking to each other via longwave morse code.

There is no room for articulate national dictators and propaganda in a post modern tribal world where powering a 100w light bulb for an hour or a luke warm solar shower is a once a week luxury.

If global trade, just in time manufacturing and distribution fail, the end result is too horrible to predict in detail.

 

[Lady Campanula]

Your argument is persuasive.

I've long been a true believer in JIT shopping so, anticipating the Western post-industrial apocalypse by, I truly hope, quite a few hours, I'm rushing out right now to my local Tescos Extra and Morrisons Mega to bring my stock of Bruichladdich and Balvenie right up to the eaves, to corner the local market in firelighters and FB pies, to gather all the little tealights that IKEA will let me have, and raid all the charity shops in my nearby World Heritage Site mini-city for cheap rubbish novels. Yards of 'em.

I guess after a few nipperkins of Uisge Bheatha Nan Eilean and spring water, even Mills & Boon bodice rippers will seem 'high art'.

In any event, I observe that all those who worry themselves into early graves about such stuff are largely concerned about the survival of their genes, in the personae of their children and grandchildren. That's being led IMHO by the blood chemistry and not the intellect. There are lots of children around. Some of them may indeed be fine people. I wish them well.

Meanwhile, back at the Balvenie....

 

[KellysEye]

As others have said you would probably be dead as others steal what you have. I'd sail to the Orinocco river in Venezuela and get one of the Indian tribes to show me in detail how to live off the rainforest.

We went into the rainforest with a Warau Indian and he showed what plants, trees, ant nests, things for fishing etc they use. We only travelled about fifty yards into the forest and the range of things they use was incredible. It was like having a Tesco, B&Q and Boots all within walking distance.

If you are wondering about the ant nests they put their hand in, grab some material, shake off the ants and use it as mosquito repellant. Avoid fire ants at all costs their bites can put you in hospital.

 

[tinkicker0]

Long been a strange fantasy of mine, the omega man, last one earth. Strange.

The plain fact is: After a week or two, your planning will quickly fail as your stocks run low and others get more desperate.

After a month or so you will have to ask the question of yourself:

Am I prepared to kill a man and his family for two tins of baked beans and a tin of peaches?

If the answer is no, you will not survive PERIOD.

I will not be a survivor. That is already decided.

 

[Conachair]

who´s read The Road, by Cormac McCarthy?

 

[ninky]

who´s read The Road, by Cormac McCarthy?

no but i've seen the film and thought it was rubbish. especially the ending with the all american family and dog to save the day. why on earth would domesticated animals and humans out survive the feral. surely there would be loads of rats outliving human beings and at a pinch you'd have to eat those (more likely than the coke dispensing machine in the film).

anyway as a lass i reckon my best bet would be to assemble a group of female pirates, enslave a few men to keep us happy, open lids and that sort of thing and maybe create the odd eunuch to do the washing up.

 

[Lady Campanula]

....anyway as a lass i reckon my best bet would be to assemble a group of female pirates, enslave a few men to keep us happy, open lids and that sort of thing and maybe create the odd eunuch to do the washing up.

There's those members of this forum who've "Been there, done that, got the well-filled wet T-shirts".

Maybe they'll let you join as a 'Prentice Piratesse. Lookee here, aaaarh!

 

[BrendanS]

As one who has been enslaved by female pirates, very publicly on here, it won't happen again!