what engine for my launch?

Daydream believer said:
Sorry to disagree but I am building a model traction engine ( my winter hobby) & the boiler is 100mm diameter. That has to have a boiler cert & built to quite exacting standards before I can run it near any public or at a club. The same applies to some of the smaller ones as well.
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I was talking about statutory inspections, which I was told only started at 6" diameter. Insurers for model engineering clubs can have their own requirements as well. Sorry, should have made that clear. I don't think anyone would care about the design and construction of your 4" boiler if you didn't need insurance cover.

Full gory details in The Pressure Systems Safety Regulations 2000. I'm intrigued by this:

yU0kxnx.png


Sure;y the Waverley's boilers have to be inspected? Maybe there are other regulations for ships.
 
burgundyben said:
I'm warming to the idea of steam.

I'll go do some research.

I can't see that certifying a boiler can be that much bother, its just a pressure test.
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No it is not. It involves, construction, safety valves sight gauges check valves. Ensuring the 2 water feed pumps are operating. Checking fittings, water supply. Apart from straight test it has to have test under working temperatures as well. It is quite detailed.
 
oldharry said:
Why? Steam power is no different to diesel or petrol. The right size steam engine will push her along every bit as well and be a great deal smaller and lighter than a petrol or diesel of the same power. That is mainly because a steam engine doesnt require a water jacket to keep it cool. Low HP petrol and diesels usually need a hefty flywheel to keep the engine turning through the compression cycle. These can add significantly to the overall weight of the unit. Steam engines do not pre-compress so can have much lighter flywheels.
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Actually the flywheels are quite big. But what about the spare water tender, The twin pumps for maintaining water level in the boiler, The extensive pipe work, drain valves, The coal & storage The insulating jacket to the cylinder The insulation to the pipework etc. ?
& you have just got to have a chimney & a whistle
 
Glad I started this thread. It makes interesting reading and I'm glad of all the inputs.

I was musing about it last night, at one point I did think perhaps a brand new Beta would be best. So I've been full circle!
 
Daydream believer said:
Actually the flywheels are quite big. But what about the spare water tender, The twin pumps for maintaining water level in the boiler, The extensive pipe work, drain valves, The coal & storage The insulating jacket to the cylinder The insulation to the pipework etc. ?
& you have just got to have a chimney & a whistle
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Well if you will insist on cluttering up the boat with all these necessities.... but I agree you MUST have a chimney and whistle!

It doesnt seem unreasonably heavy, and looks a whole letter better than yer average marine diesel (though I grant you it takes a biut more space. But with machinery like this thats part of the fun ennit?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDv_J1RXTB4

I followed the account of one of Waverley's refits some years ago , and yes they most certyainly do have to have boiler certificates. testing them and associated steam lines etc is a major (and expensive!) part of refits.
 
oldharry said:
I followed the account of one of Waverley's refits some years ago , and yes they most certyainly do have to have boiler certificates. testing them and associated steam lines etc is a major (and expensive!) part of refits.
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Of course. I am just wondering under what legislation, since the pressure systems stuff doesn't seem to apply to ships.
 
Daydream believer said:
No it is not. It involves, construction, safety valves sight gauges check valves. Ensuring the 2 water feed pumps are operating. Checking fittings, water supply. Apart from straight test it has to have test under working temperatures as well. It is quite detailed.
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+1

I inherited a small steam engine a few years ago. Since it was just assembled from a kit and I had nowhere to keep it, I decided to sell it (my dad got the beautiful made-from-scratch traction engine that my grandad spent 25 years building, obviously we would not sell that). The presence or absence of a boiler certificate was of huge importance to all potential buyers and to the price - apparently to renew an existing certification was relatively easy, but to acquire a new one without any existing paperwork to prove how the system had been built was a major undertaking.

Pete
 
JumbleDuck said:
Of course. I am just wondering under what legislation, since the pressure systems stuff doesn't seem to apply to ships.
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If you google
Pressure Systems Safety Regulations 2000 I
Then follow it through you will see that the regs do apply to design & manufacture & supply of pressure vessels over .5 bar so presumably that does apply to ships boilers constructed after a certain date.( if the Op was to buy one) There are limitations that allow hobby users to bye pass the regs but the " Green Book" on small steam boilers states that whilst not strictly governed in law the HSE do advise certification.
That means that if an accident occurred & someone was injured questions would be asked. Insurers would also ask for certification.
 
Daydream believer said:
If you google
Pressure Systems Safety Regulations 2000 I
Then follow it through you will see that the regs do apply to design & manufacture & supply of pressure vessels over .5 bar so presumably that does apply to ships boilers
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The entire point of JD's post 61, and the reason he's asking the question, is that those regulations explicitly do not apply to ship's boilers. He pasted the very text saying so right into this thread!

Presumably this is simply because a different law - perhaps an earlier one - applies to boilers at sea.

Pete
 
Daydream believer said:
If you google
Pressure Systems Safety Regulations 2000 I
Then follow it through you will see that the regs do apply to design & manufacture & supply of pressure vessels over .5 bar so presumably that does apply to ships boilers constructed after a certain date.( if the Op was to buy one)
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I refer the Rt Hon Gentleman to Post 61, and in particular to

yU0kxnx.png


There are limitations that allow hobby users to bye pass the regs but the " Green Book" on small steam boilers states that whilst not strictly governed in law the HSE do advise certification.
That means that if an accident occurred & someone was injured questions would be asked. Insurers would also ask for certification.
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Thanks. More-or-less what I thought, then.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Of course. I am just wondering under what legislation, since the pressure systems stuff doesn't seem to apply to ships.
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The Merchant Shipping Safety Regulations 1998 used to apply. I dont know if anything more recent has been enacted, but its more than likely there's a whole string of H&S oriented stuff come in since!

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/2515/made

See Section VIII which defines standards, and outlines of tests required at least for new (post 1984) installations
 
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prv said:
The entire point of JD's post 61, and the reason he's asking the question, is that those regulations explicitly do not apply to ship's boilers. He pasted the very text saying so right into this thread!

Presumably this is simply because a different law - perhaps an earlier one - applies to boilers at sea.

Pete
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So you are saying that if a manufacturer is supplying a boiler to the OP's launch it does not have to have a pressure certificate when supplied & does not have to comply with any manufacturing design standards etc as supplied simply because the OP is putting it in a boat.
Really!!
I would suggest that the minute that boiler leaves the workshop it has to comply with EU regs ( forget Brexit for now please!!)
What happens once it is on the boat may be a different matter, but I would suggest that it still has to comply in the first instance
 
Daydream believer said:
So you are saying that if a manufacturer is supplying a boiler to the OP's launch it does not have to have a pressure certificate when supplied & does not have to comply with any manufacturing design standards etc as supplied simply because the OP is putting it in a boat.
Really!!
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No, nobody is saying that.

Pete
 
Daydream believer said:
So you are saying that if a manufacturer is supplying a boiler to the OP's launch it does not have to have a pressure certificate when supplied & does not have to comply with any manufacturing design standards etc as supplied simply because the OP is putting it in a boat.
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No, just that it doesn't seem to be covered by the same regulations as boilers used on land. And by the way, I don't think any boiler has to comply with anything if it's not being used.
 
JumbleDuck said:
And by the way, I don't think any boiler has to comply with anything if it's not being used.
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In which case take it down to the land fill site & get it on the TV programe " Money from Nothing"
Some twit will cut the end off , stick 3 wobbly legs on it, paint it pink & yellow, make it into a flower pot then a TV presenter will knock on your door & hand you £200:encouragement:
 
Daydream believer said:
In which case take it down to the land fill site & get it on the TV programe " Money from Nothing"
Some twit will cut the end off , stick 3 wobbly legs on it, paint it pink & yellow, make it into a flower pot then a TV presenter will knock on your door & hand you £200:encouragement:
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I wish I'd known that. I sold a 3 1/2" gauge "Tich" boiler from my father's estate for rather less than that. Professionally made, fully certified, never used, 40 years old.
 
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