What electric windlass to replace a Lofrans Royal?

[Babylon]

New-to-me 32ft heavy-displacement boat has a Lofrans Royal manual windlass, currently lifting a 35lb CQR and 50m of 10mm chain, which I'd like to replace with a 12v windlass, probably 1000W.

Is there a tried-and-tested electric version by Lofrans or any other manufacturer with the same or similar footprint?

 

[rogerthebodger]

I have a Lofrans Tigres 12Vdc which works for me on my 20-ton boat

 

[vas]

also Lofrans Tigres 24V 1500 or 1800W. Happy with it.
Thing is that your Royal is more or less the same as the Tigres bar the motor, so hopefully would fit in the same holes without making a mess. Check online for a hole printout and compare.

 

[dunedin]

When buying perhaps take this opportunity to move to 8mm chain. More than enough for a 32 footer (and 60m would be lighter than current 50m)

 

[Star-Lord]

For a lower profile Maxwell RC8 (8mm) but you will need to fit a Kong anchor swivel (correctly!) Because of chain twist on this make/model (as recommended by Maxwell). Or else the Tigres as recommended above. However... I have recently fitted a Royal manual for 8mm and its amazing!! Lots to be said for manual imho.

 

[Tranona]

Lofrans Cayman88 is the obvious replacement. suggest before installation remove all the stainless screws and re-insert with Duralac. Coat the base with an epoxy based coating. Do not use the foam pad under the base. As suggested change to 8mm chain.

 

[cpedw]

To avoid messing with Duralac and watching the aluminium body dissolve, get a Lewmar Pro windlass with a stainless steel body.

 

[Babylon]

Why the Cayman as opposed to the Tigres? Because Cayman motor below deck?

Re chain, boat also comes with two other large anchors, both on 10mm, a Bruce and a Fisherman's, which I need to decide what to do with.

Initial cruising just Channel as existing, later a bit further afield, but three anchors and all that chain?!

 

[dunedin]

Why the Cayman as opposed to the Tigres? Because Cayman motor below deck?

Re chain, boat also comes with two other large anchors, both on 10mm, a Bruce and a Fisherman's, which I need to decide what to do with.

Initial cruising just Channel as existing, later a bit further afield, but three anchors and all that chain?!

One modern concave / spade type anchor with 60m of 8mm chain.
One kedge (the Bruce or the CQR?) with a short length of chain and the rest rope.
Ditch the rest?

 

[rogerthebodger]

Why the Cayman as opposed to the Tigres? Because Cayman motor below deck?

Re chain, boat also comes with two other large anchors, both on 10mm, a Bruce and a Fisherman's, which I need to decide what to do with.

Initial cruising just Channel as existing, later a bit further afield, but three anchors and all that chain?!

I have 10mm chain with 2 different types of anchors.

Unless you have a need to save weight (racing) why go to the expense of changing your chin to a smaller link size

 

[Babylon]

@dunedin - That is almost exactly what I have had on my 27 footer for a decade - a 25lb Manson with 50m 8mm plus 50m octoplait, and a Fortress kedge with 10m plus rope etc

One or both of the other heavy anchors can easily stay ashore until needed (or just wanted) by some future owner.

I was thinking of a 35 Manson, but it is worth acknowledging that the previous owners have cruised far and wide over nearly four decades with the CQR! And it has also been suggested to me that the heavier CQRs perform better than the smaller versions...?

 

[Tranona]

To avoid messing with Duralac and watching the aluminium body dissolve, get a Lewmar Pro windlass with a stainless steel body.

Not a good idea. It may be stainless but it is a poor product. The motor of mine lasted only 5 years of light use (maybe 250 deployments). It is however easy to take apart and repair. The Lofrans is in a different league altogether.

 

[JOHNPEET]

Lofrans Kobra here with 60m x 10mm chain. 12m 17tonne steel boat.
1000w at 24v

If you’ve got the option - go for 24v. Lower current, smaller cables required.

 

[Tranona]

Why the Cayman as opposed to the Tigres? Because Cayman motor below deck?

Re chain, boat also comes with two other large anchors, both on 10mm, a Bruce and a Fisherman's, which I need to decide what to do with.

Initial cruising just Channel as existing, later a bit further afield, but three anchors and all that chain?!

The other way round. The Cayman is above deck and the equivalent below deck is the Kobra. I have had both. Apart from the corrosion issue (which can be avoided) the Cayman lasted 13 years of which 7 were as a charter boat in the Ionian anchoring twice a day for typically 20 6 day weeks a year. So overall including my private use for the rest of the time over 3000 deployments.

I am with dunedin. 16kg NG anchor of your choice and 50 or 60m of 8mm chain. You will get no benefit from having a larger anchor and heavier chain. on the other hand as you say folks manage OK with heavy CQRs and oversize chain - just that it is not necessary.

 

[Babylon]

The Cayman is above deck and the equivalent below deck is the Kobra. I have had both...

I am with dunedin. 16kg NG anchor of your choice and 50 or 60m of 8mm chain. You will get no benefit from having a larger anchor and heavier chain. on the other hand as you say folks manage OK with heavy CQRs and oversize chain - just that it is not necessary.

Thanks, that gives me clarity: 16kg NG and 8mm, remove the other heavy gear.

Neither of the two Lofrans choices (both 1000W) have the same mounting-hole spacing as the existing Royal, so the decision will be based on which will be the best fit overall, both above and below decks, i.e. allowing for bulkhead etc.

The boat system is all 12v. On my previous installation in the 27 footer I ran heavy gauge power supply wires back to the domestic bank aft (took some routing in extremely tight spaces!) but here I've got room to install a dedicated battery forward if I wish to, with lighter gauge wiring running back - which I presume is the better solution?

 

[JOHNPEET]

I’m sure you’ll get differences of opinion on the dedicated windlass battery, but I’m with you on that. I also have a change over switch which allows me to power the windlass from the house bank should I lose the windlass battery for some reason. As a last resort, you can also manually crank the Kobra, I’m guessing the Cayman too.

 

[Babylon]

Yes, I think you can hand-crank all their horizontal gypsy windlasses - which would be my failsafe option rather than complicate things further with switching circuits.

Here's another question: I fitted a Quick Aleph on my 27 footer, the single vertical gypsy on which can grip both chain and the spliced-on octoplait (50m of each), but these Lofrans gypsies are only specced for chain. How would that work then with the rope drum on the other side? Hoik out the warp and flake it by hand on the side-deck when the chain has run out?

 

[JOHNPEET]

Yes, I think you can hand-crank all their horizontal gypsy windlasses - which would be my failsafe option rather than complicate things further with switching circuits.

Here's another question: I fitted a Quick Aleph on my 27 footer, the single vertical gypsy on which can grip both chain and the spliced-on octoplait (50m of each), but these Lofrans gypsies are only specced for chain. How would that work then with the rope drum on the other side? Hoik out the warp and flake it by hand on the side-deck when the chain has run out?

My 60m of chain covers all my anchoring needs, so I can’t really help you on that point.

With the rope drum on the other side of the windlass, you also have an alignment challenge with your stem head fitting!

 

[Tranona]

Thanks, that gives me clarity: 16kg NG and 8mm, remove the other heavy gear.

Neither of the two Lofrans choices (both 1000W) have the same mounting-hole spacing as the existing Royal, so the decision will be based on which will be the best fit overall, both above and below decks, i.e. allowing for bulkhead etc.

The boat system is all 12v. On my previous installation in the 27 footer I ran heavy gauge power supply wires back to the domestic bank aft (took some routing in extremely tight spaces!) but here I've got room to install a dedicated battery forward if I wish to, with lighter gauge wiring running back - which I presume is the better solution?

Yes the choice does depend on the layout of the boat. On my Bavarias the windlass was on a platform in the anchor locker so above deck was obvious. My current GH31 has a Kobra and it suits the layout because a deck mount would not line up with the naval pipe which leads into a chute. The motor is very accessible without being intrusive. You can see the chute in the first photo and the motor right at the top behind it. Bow battery makes sense if you have both windlass and bow thruster, but a toss up on cost grounds for just a windlass. The second photo shows my bow thruster installation. The battery is the other side of the bulkhead and the windlass immediately above it. charged from the start battery through a 30A B2B from Sterling (bought on here, but if buying new would choose a Victron). All very neat.

 

[Neeves]

For your kedge, second anchor, I'd suggest considering a Fortress. You can disassemble, or store relatively flat and if you need to use it in anger, say from a dinghy, its seriously light. The FX 23 would be about the right size. Lewmar has a clone of the Fortress, I've never seen one nor read of anyone buying one, but I'm sure its fine - the choice a price/availability issue.

If you are down sizing the chain you will need a new bow shackle, a 3/8th" from Crosby, the model with the 2t WLL - easily available in the UK.

Crosby® 209A Alloy Screw Pin Anchor Shackles | Crosby®

Replacing the 10mm chain with 8mm is a no brainer, needs a smaller windlass, could use less power, more room to store the chain, saves weight (if you ever need to retrieve by hand). Weight in the chain is a very 19th century concept and unnecessary with the modern quiver of anchors (that set and hold reliably).

I might suggest the Maxwell RC8 - 8 (which is in the Vetus camp). I believe Maxwell have been investing effort in making their windlass more quiet - but have no update on whether this is significant.

As suggested by Tranona - and it needs underlining .... disassemble the, any, windlass, remove all the bolts, coat every single one of them with Duralac and rebuild. This will help you learn how to service the windlass and coating the bolts will extend life of the windlass (and reduce opportunity for you to curse said item). The most common issue with windlass is bolt corrosion, followed by a lack of servicing.

I might suggest a 10mm chain would benefit from a bigger motor than 1,000w

Jonathan