What don't women like about sailing....

I am sure a lot of women are as strong as men; certainly I know plenty who are stronger than I, including my younger daughter! But I am much smaller/weaker than the average bloke; even at the top end of the recommended BMI for my height, I only weigh 11 stone, and ideally I'd lose a stone (I was less than 9 stone in my early 20s, when I was in training for rowing!). I find that I can manage OK with winches and main-sheet tackles and so on - but jobs that a bloke nearer the average size finds easy, I find hard, and if I were much smaller/weaker, I wouldn't be able to do them. As it is, I've had to modify the main-sheet tackle, as the original 4-1 purchase wasn't enough for me when close-hauled in a breeze. Problem is, there's a limit how far you can go with that - the bigger the purchase (either in a tackle or a winch) the more the friction, and the more rope you have to pull through. I've also purchased a long winch-handle - but again, there's a limit how far you can go with that; as it is, there's one winch I can't use it on because of lack of swinging space.

Point is, I'd suggest that I am near the AVERAGE weight/strength of a woman. I have to take measures to ensure I CAN handle the sheets etc of the boat, and even so it means that I have to use my full body to haul on halliards, reefing lines etc., and I have developed skills to use my strength effectively over many years. My wife - a novice, and very much at the lower end of the strength/weight spectrum (she's size 6 or 8, and struggles to find adult clothes that fit) - simply can't handle the sails in anything more than a light breeze. So, I'd suggest that up to 50% of women will struggle with the physical strength - especially upper-body strength - required to sail. Note also that for reasons to do with body image, many women don't wish to develop a lot of upper body strength (my late wife gave up swimming competitively when she realized (in her teens) what it was doing to her shape!).

Of course there are remedies for this; there are tasks that don't require as much strength, and there are ways of reducing the amount of strength required (for example, electric winches). But most sailing boats aren't equipped in that way, and assume that the people sailing will have strength more typical of a man than a woman.

So, just looking at AVERAGES - not any particular person - it is clear that a lot of women are going to struggle with the physical side of sailing. I think that there are ways to mitigate it - but sometimes the mitigation will be costly; for example, I hate to think what equipping Capricious with elecric sheet winches would cost - even a Winchrite costs a small fortune! And there are practical limits to increasing the mechanical advantage of tackles or winches.

So, I think that all mixed crews need to think very carefully about the roles that the different crew-members take on. It is no good my expecting my wife to sheet in a genoa when close-hauled in a force 4 or more; she can't do it. But she can take the tiller to tack the boat, while I get the sheets across. She is lighter and nimbler than I; she can get a line ashore when we berth at a pontoon, and as she is still a novice at boat-handling, that works well. And so it goes; we work out what tasks she is physically able to do, as well as what (from a learning point of view) it would be good for her to do. Of course, she has a reserve of strength if circumstances require it - but that is soon used up, and is better kept in reserve.


I'm interested in all this stuff about women not wanting to work winches, not being strong enough etc. Ever since I first stepped onto a boat sail trimming has been where I am most comfortable. You can't get me away from the winches. Whatever women don't like about sailing, it definitely isn't always that. Nothing makes my heart sing like a properly trimmed sail.

It is true that women can get diverted into boat domestics, like mopping up children and pets, cooking, and ministering to the seasick. I think looking after the people on the boat can be just as valuable as directly sailing it and don't mind doing a fair bit of this, but if you did nothing else, I can see you might get fed up in the end.
 
My observations:--

My Mum was always a bit of a "reluctant 1st mate" sailing with my Dad. She later told me that that this was mainly because he always saw things as a challenge and wanted to do long trips and would go out in bad weather (all a bit too gung-ho for her liking). She also felt that he took too many risks, and would start shouting at her when things became difficult, which just made everything a lot worse.

My wife wasn't into sailing at all. I took her out in a dinghy and she hated it. Later we went on a flotilla in Greece, but to get her to agree, I had to agree that if she didn't like it we could stay tied-up for the 2 weeks and just use it as a floating caravan.

We had similar experiences with our own boats since then as has been voiced here already (comfort, toilet facilities, loads on the tiller and not feeling in-control, etc.). However, with the current boat I have to ask if I want to steer (because the loads on the wheel are so small), and because the boat's generally bigger, she's more comfortable and confident in her (and its) abilities.

I think though, that women have much more of a sense of self-preservation, and hence have a natural adversity to anything that they feel might endangers them. A good example is a "problem" we used to have where she would get nervous when she couldn't see land. I kept explaining that it made no difference, because even if she could see land, she wouldn't be able to swim to the shore, but that logic didn't seem to make any difference to her in-built fear. We also had the "depth of water" one, and again my logical explanation that " once you can't tough the bottom it makes no difference whether it's 10ft or 1,000ft" again didn't wash with her. Although she's much better with both now.

Anyway, I've found that the secret to harmony on-board is:-

1./ A big, comfortable boat
2./ Short(ish) trips in nice weather
3./ Don't go out when it's blowing a gale, p**ssing with rain, snowing, or there's a hurricane coming (which we had to do once when we got caught-out a bit with Hurricane Tomas a few years back).
4./ Encourage her to helm and take charge of the boat
5./ Don't panic and don't shout (a sure way to make your other half feel nervous and scared)
6./ Make the tea and lunch on-route
 
AntarticPilot,

all very true; my old chum Charlie, a veteran of the Murmansk Convoys and the first person to ever take me sailing, had a saying; " the best sailor in the world is the laziest " - ie, plan everthing ahead, let the tide and wind work with one, and use simple tackles to do anything with weight on the end of the line.

I think it would do us all good to whizz back in a time machine and see how it used to be done before winches and engines.

If a time machine isn't handy I suppose a trip in a modern square rig training ship will have to do, I know the time I was given a lift on ' Royalist ' was one if the highlights of my sailing career.

PS

It doesn't pay to have strong women around you know; I taught a ' big boned ' girlfriend self defence which she promptly used on me, knocking seven bells out of me whenever we had an argument ! :rolleyes:
 
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"The best sailor in the world is the laziest" - ie, plan everything ahead, let the tide and wind work with one, and use simple tackles to do anything with weight on the end of the line.

What fabulous advice, not only with female crews aboard. Thinking ahead to long possible dinghy-sailing trips in the glorious summertime (a long way ahead, perhaps!), I often think how much damp open-air daysailing I could fairly expose my non-sailing friends to; without exception, the smart journey plan includes a stop in port, well before the end of each day, so lousy weather needn't be an extended hell for those who don't relish it...

...and tides...hurrying to make a favourable tide sounds smart, but if the weather ain't ideal, it's so much smarter to add 12 or 24 hours to your stay and spend the time eating/exploring/relaxing ashore. When you make the next favourable tide, (or the next day's, in order to avoid night-time terrors and stress), the time in port will have been a highlight instead of a missed opportunity.

Nothing makes my heart sing like a properly trimmed sail.

That easily beats Meg Ryan's excited behaviour in the restaurant 25 years ago...were you aware how much you'd touch sailors' hearts with those words? :D
 
What fabulous advice, not only with female crews aboard. Thinking ahead to long possible dinghy-sailing trips in the glorious summertime (a long way ahead, perhaps!), I often think how much damp open-air daysailing I could fairly expose my non-sailing friends to; without exception, the smart journey plan includes a stop in port, well before the end of each day, so lousy weather needn't be an extended hell for those who don't relish it...

...and tides...hurrying to make a favourable tide sounds smart, but if the weather ain't ideal, it's so much smarter to add 12 or 24 hours to your stay and spend the time eating/exploring/relaxing ashore. When you make the next favourable tide, (or the next day's, in order to avoid night-time terrors and stress), the time in port will have been a highlight instead of a missed opportunity.



That easily beats Meg Ryan's excited behaviour in the restaurant 25 years ago...were you aware how much you'd touch sailors' hearts with those words? :D

Dan,

pray tell which planet you're going to be on for this glorious summer, then ?!

As for Merry Girl, she's teasing us with fanciful notions of the perfect sailing ' companion ' ( nearly said crumpet, phew I got away with it ) - I'm sure she's taken, and let's console ourselves thinking she probably looks like a muckspreaders' boot and has the personality of an industrial angler.

I know it's not true but try to hang onto that image while looking up the lonely hearts for ' Lady with good kind character and Osprey wanted, please send photo of Osprey ' - it certainly gives me hope on these dark nights...
 
This thread has been most useful to us and has help us confirm our plan and approach to sailing together next year. Beverley has agreed that she will with my support helm in more demanding conditions and situations.

She had never sailed in any small boat before we met at university. Aged 13 she was taken on a school trip on the SS Nevassa in a force 10 across the bay of Biscay.

I fear that this has had an everlasting effect on her. Sea sickness is one of her worst fears as when you feel really sick there is nothing that you can do other than lie down or puke or both.
She noticed last year that actually feeling of being in control in most conditions has a remarked effect on her level of enjoyment.

We both have a love of being outdoors. We brought our children up enjoing the outdoor life, walking, camping, caravanning,swimming,windsurfing, canoeing, kart racing and occasionally sailing.

Nothing is worse than getting cold or wet and all these activities demand the right layers of clothing to stay safe,warm and dry.

Beverley was introduced to sailing in a Lark on the river Trent on a gentle summer day followed by a sociable bbq with other sailing aquaintances she loved it.....

Nothing much has changed except kids now have their own, the mortgage is paid off, and we have a slightly bigger boat that can take us to sandy beaches where we can have a sociable barbeque...

What puts her off...

Unpredictable seas. (Overfalls!)

Unexpected Heeling. (we need a heavier boat!)

Cold

No warm shower after 48 hours.

Being out of sight of land. But charts gps and sailing in company preferred help

Night passages.

Sea toilet malfunctions..
 
Following on from another thread, one of the interesting things came up was women are MORE LIKELY to not enjoy sailing... Just a deduction from a year or so observing and I have no scientific basis for making this statement, but it seems to me that women are MORE LIKELY to not enjoy sailing. So I wondered what particular aspects put some ladies off? Is it weather, size of boat, the Skipper (or the First Mate if the women is the Skipper)?

My mother was put off by my fathers attitude to sailing - gung ho, rude & bossy, so I haven't been able to get her onto my boat :( mind you she is now 72 and can do what she ruddy well pleases. I have a friend (female) who is about 60 who loves sailing, adores it and she is a fantastic helm.

Most of the posters here are male, yet it is not that much of a masculine sport - not compared to rugby or wrestling, so why is the number of women so small? Or do we generally have better things to do than ponk about on t'internet?

Dianne

Hi Dianne,
swmbo was more interested in coming sailing when I began to ask and find out what she thought would make it more appealing.
Comfort was as near the top of the list as anything and the fact that general interest needed to kept up for someone who originally was fairly non physical.. "you'll never catch me camping", etc...
Comfort has been much improved with heating and hotwater/shower onboard and the slightly larger boat means we have a 'wardrobe'.... nearly as big as ours at home!
General interest was a little bit of a struggle for a few years but has been transformed since swmbo has done her Competant crew, Day Skipper theory and practical.
We have a pal down near Plymouth who runs RYA courses from his Nic' 38 at very competative rates and with excellent facilities aboard.
Sailing with him and other crew has allowed her to 'be herself' and probably gained from not having me around.
Due to this our sailing together is totally shared in terms of the planning and navigation and has become fun together rather than a task which we were doing together.
Five months away to Scotland this last summer would have been very different before her gain in both knowledge and confidence and perhaps my confidence in her and my pleasure at sharing the joys of being out there.
S.
S.
 
Antartic Pilot

I wasn't suggesting that women are generally as strong as men, which is clearly daft, just that not all women are put off sailing by lack of strength. Not wanting to get big shoulders is individual too: I was born with 'em so I'd rather use them than pretend I'm a dainty doll. Of course if you do struggle with the physical aspects of sailing one solution is a smaller boat, but a lot of women like the better accommodation in bigger boats, so it shows we have different priorities, just like men really.

Dan Crane

When I wrote 'nothing makes my heart sing like a properly trimmed sail' it is simply true.

There I am, poised over the winch, with my shoulders burning as I get the last two turns in, and I can tell the sail is right because the boat is moving really well. Glance up to check and, yes, it it is beautiful, glance back at the helm, big thumbs-up and smile, winch handle off and back in pocket, until the next 'ready about' and off we go again. Oh, perfect.

Andy Seajet

What have I ever done to you! LOL!
 
TSB240,

I hope you have a great time together, just remember that being at anchor and cosy is huge amount more fun than being macho and being covered in green water, in the dark, wet through and frozen - who has the brains to choose ?

It's meant to be FUN !
 
Dan Crane

When I wrote 'nothing makes my heart sing like a properly trimmed sail' it is simply true.

There I am, poised over the winch, with my shoulders burning as I get the last two turns in, and I can tell the sail is right because the boat is moving really well. Glance up to check and, yes, it it is beautiful, glance back at the helm, big thumbs-up and smile, winch handle off and back in pocket, until the next 'ready about' and off we go again. Oh, perfect.

Perfect indeed. I'll be happy to 'helm'. Please send photo of boat. :D

Really, it's entrancing to hear these words from a lady. So many just whine about having worn the wrong shoes. Just like on shore...:rolleyes:

When it comes to yacht bathrooms, I suppose I can be a bit feminine myself. Every yacht layout I've ever seen of less than forty feet over all, I've wanted to redesign, because of the preposterous little cupboard supposedly provided for one's relief and ablutions. It's just rotten design. A few nearly-good exceptions, like the Westerly Konsort Duo, but they're amazingly rare.

Note to yacht-designers: bigger, better bathrooms will mean happier lady-crews. FACT.
 
Merry Girl,

well you've made standard gits like me ( and dare I say possibly Dancrane too ) raise the imaginary bar too high; when I was very briefly married I saw a chap on a passing boat eying up my wife, and I grinned, " yes she can reef, hand and steer too ! " at which they both exploded with laughter.

What I didn't know was that her mission in life was to cause as much misery and pain as possible to all men, especially me...seriously !

I have a great girlfriend, snag is she doesn't like sailing at all - and I haven't done anything yet to put her off, I've instructed a lot of men and women.

Seems I'm destined to be a real ' singlehander ' ! :)
 
Perfect indeed. I'll be happy to 'helm'. Please send photo of boat. :D

Really, it's entrancing to hear these words from a lady. So many just whine about having worn the wrong shoes. Just like on shore...:rolleyes:

When it comes to yacht bathrooms, I suppose I can be a bit feminine myself. Every yacht layout I've ever seen of less than forty feet over all, I've wanted to redesign, because of the preposterous little cupboard supposedly provided for one's relief and ablutions. It's just rotten design. A few nearly-good exceptions, like the Westerly Konsort Duo, but they're amazingly rare.

Note to yacht-designers: bigger, better bathrooms will mean happier lady-crews. FACT.

We have a AWB - Benny 323, and the heads are excellent, roomy and well designed.
 
We have a AWB - Benny 323, and the heads are excellent, roomy and well designed.

I believe you - I did say 'rare' - and I'm very happy for you. But it's true, of tens of thousands of older yachts. So many heads resemble aircraft lavatories. Plus, feeble showers, inadequate dry lockerage, foul loo, the whole chamber feeling like the unheated, ill-lit, disgustingly ill-ventilated head-compartment of a prison-barge. Not that I'd know...:rolleyes:
 
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