What do we think of Smartfind?

Sandyman said:
But they are not likely to do that are they ?? Might just expose any weakness & failings in the system, which would effect sales. And to do so might cause the manufacturers to reduce
or cut their advertising budget with said magazine.
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We'll test in whatever weather the gods supply us with, sometimes they are "kind" to us by supplying 30 knots when we need to dis-mast a boat, other times they aren't. We'll prolly not chuck someone over the side and see if we can find them though, more likely a dummy or a lifejacket and bucket, health and safety innit.

If something doesn't work, be that route planning software, or £10 hack saw is better than a pair of £1100 hydraulic cutters, Yachting Monthly will tell you.
 
To add to the conditions issue with a piece for thought - I thought the PBO Lifejacket tests in the RNLI pool (on youtube somewhere, think it was 2009, possibly) were a pretty effective "real world conditions" test and there was criticism of products so I wouldn't be too harsh on testing regimes - In those tests the tester did certainly seem to be getting battered by the swell which seemed to be at a high setting, granted it wasn't 100% real world conditions, but it did look rough, to be sure...
 
FishyInverness said:
Hi Richard,

Nearly all EPIRBs or PLBs now purchased include a GPS signal for pinpointing accuracy - It is regularly transmitted (usually every minute) to the relevant SAR control centre that the EPIRB or PLB is registered to. So rather than relying on the MHZ signal to attempt a bearing, the precise GPS bearing signal is passed to the resource deployed which means a speedier contact time at the unit's position.
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:)
 
FishyInverness said:
Lazy, that is true to a point - some plotters will just show the arrow, some will show the red cross in a circle, significantly ECDIS plotters on ships over 300 tonnes will be displaying the cross in circle so commercial shipping would be alerted if in range
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Most plotters should get firmware updates that will cause them to show an AIS SART as exactly that rather than a just another Class B device (assuming they can show AIS at all of course). Whether or not the owner chooses to install the update, or is aware of it, is another matter of course.
 
snooks said:
You mean YACHTING MONTHLY's test?????:confused:


:rolleyes:
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Oops, my mistake snooks, that was the one I was referring to, apologies! But it illustrates the point......Don't know where I was getting the idea that the items on test were criticised in any way, possibly my memory mashing up a review i'd read with a video!
 
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grumpy_o_g said:
Most plotters should get firmware updates that will cause them to show an AIS SART
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You'd hope so, but the AIS features on my plotter are very basic and as far as I know the manufacturer has shown no interest in updating them over the many years this model has been on sale.

Pete
 
Vic

good point yes it would need a manual override or simply a setting knob for single handers that activated the PLB immediately.

But ...

I was trying to address the issue that not all MOB events are actually life threatening the moment they happen. Perhaps that's not quite the right wording ....
A MOB situation should be treated as such immediately, an unexpected dunking even for a strong swimmer in the med 100m from shore could well be a full on emergency ...

My point is that in a lot of ( most? ) situations there may be no need to alert emergency services worldwide instantly which is what happens when a satellite based beacon is triggered.

If every casual sailor takes the attitude that a PLB is a good idea then the number of false call outs to minor incidents is going to rise. Service costs will go up and at some point in the future that will cost us money, big time! As leisure sailors we rely on the good will of industry ( and donation funded services ) to provide an infrastructure that costs billions worldwide. We should at least try to avoid abusing it. In professional situations the training and precautions are more stringent so self recovery is perhaps more likely within the first few minute of an incident.

Even a mid ocean MOB that is recovered within minutes may have triggered a PLB activation. Unless the vessel has a satphone or good SSB setup cancelling a full scale alert that could cost a really big chunk of money would be impossible.

So I stick with some sort of delay on triggering the sat. PLB. ( unless you have set the single handed mode :) )
 
grumpy_o_g said:
Most plotters should get firmware updates that will cause them to show an AIS SART as exactly that rather than a just another Class B device (assuming they can show AIS at all of course). Whether or not the owner chooses to install the update, or is aware of it, is another matter of course.
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I've filed a feature request with OpenCPN and the developer of the AIS module sounds keen to implement it.
 
grumpy_o_g said:
Most plotters should get firmware updates that will cause them to show an AIS SART as exactly that rather than a just another Class B device (assuming they can show AIS at all of course). Whether or not the owner chooses to install the update, or is aware of it, is another matter of course.
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I checked the spec. for AIS this morning. AIS SARTs send a Class A position report and a Safety message: “SART ACTIVE”
 
st599 said:
I checked the spec. for AIS this morning. AIS SARTs send a Class A position report and a Safety message: “SART ACTIVE”
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Oops, good point. Class A, not Class B. Didn't know how it encoded it as a SART though. Remarkably simple and obvious - can't believe we haven't 3 years arguing which language to use before settling on SART ACTIFE or some other compromise.
 
RichardS said:
Who do they give this GPS position to?

EPIRBs at the moment obviously give their position to the rescue services when triggered so I'm not sure what the GPS facility adds to the equation unless it's giving a GPS position to nearby ships or something? :confused:

Richard
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No, EPIRBs don't give a position.

Position from one type of satellite are calculated by Doppler effect as the satellite picks up the signal - therefore on the alert, we receive two positions with a %age probability alongside each. GPS equipped beacons give the exact position, but it's not treated as 100% infallible so we carry out the usual checks alongside that information.

An often forgotten point is the position transmitted may not be "real time" - the satellite will hold the received signal until it can lock onto a LUT to download to - so we get a distress time and position, and then a received time. Obviously, in that case, the received position will be a datum point not an exact location.

The AIS SARTs are an interesting development, but as others have said they are not instantantly recognisable as a distress (at least not on the screens MRCCs have currently). They don't trigger an audible alarm, and in crowded waters (don't forget we often have 100s of square miles of sea on a 48 inch screen) can be easy to miss. We also don't keep a proactive watch for them either.
 
nimbusgb said:
Vic


My point is that in a lot of ( most? ) situations there may be no need to alert emergency services worldwide instantly which is what happens when a satellite based beacon is triggered.

If every casual sailor takes the attitude that a PLB is a good idea then the number of false call outs to minor incidents is going to rise. Service costs will go up and at some point in the future that will cost us money, big time! As leisure sailors we rely on the good will of industry ( and donation funded services ) to provide an infrastructure that costs billions worldwide. We should at least try to avoid abusing it. In professional situations the training and precautions are more stringent so self recovery is perhaps more likely within the first few minute of an incident.

Even a mid ocean MOB that is recovered within minutes may have triggered a PLB activation. Unless the vessel has a satphone or good SSB setup cancelling a full scale alert that could cost a really big chunk of money would be impossible.

So I stick with some sort of delay on triggering the sat. PLB. ( unless you have set the single handed mode :) )
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I get where you're coming from, but I'd really disagree with that.

Any MOB is (in my view anyway) a grave and immintent danger - therefore a distress situation. Until that person is recovered and known to be well (secondary drowning, cold water shock, etc) you can't definitively say they are safe. You might spend 20mins attempting to recover them - only to find you can't.

Especially if a long way offshore, we need that time to get a SAR operation moving - especially if you think about the potential delay in EPIRB receipt. That initial time is invaluable - we'd always, always, rather stand down 100 SAR operations that start one two hours too late - which has happened.
 
oldvarnish said:
http://www.mcmurdo.co.uk/en/products/personal-ais-beacon

It seems, at first glance, that this is a better bet than a personal EPRIB because it gives an AIS equipped yacht an immediate picture of where the overboard is.
An EPIRB wouldn't do that. Am I right?
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I think it is an excellent idea. I have a PLB, but if I were to fall overboard the crew could not locate me. And now we learnt from Rambler's experience that it may take over one hour before the distress signal is actually acknowledged.

However a class B AIS (low power) is receivable only from 4-5 nm distance, and that is with a mast mounted antenna. I would expect the range of this device to be quite limited.

It would be best if a PLBs had Satellite+AIS instead of Satellite+homing beacon because nobody but SAR services have the appropriate apparatus to receive the homing beacon bust most now have AIS receivers.

I would expect such device small enough would be the best Safety tool after the life jacket.
 
haydude said:
I think it is an excellent idea. I have a PLB, but if I were to fall overboard the crew could not locate me. And now we learnt from Rambler's experience that it may take over one hour before the distress signal is actually acknowledged.

However a class B AIS (low power) is receivable only from 4-5 nm distance, and that is with a mast mounted antenna. I would expect the range of this device to be quite limited.

It would be best if a PLBs had Satellite+AIS instead of Satellite+homing beacon because nobody but SAR services have the appropriate apparatus to receive the homing beacon bust most now have AIS receivers.

I would expect such device small enough would be the best Safety tool after the life jacket.
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It's not a class B device.
 
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