What County is Rockall in ?

Kelpie said:
28 days is the usual limit for a temporary structure- I think your flagpole would be very lucky to last that long!
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Mr Kelpie. I think you are questioning my anchoring technique!

There's a lot more scope in anchoring than your Spades and Rocnas, your Mansons and Knoxes. Have a look at this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchor_(climbing).

An unexplored world of anchors.

28 days, pah

( Fixed your Profurl yet?)
 
I love the idea that a bunch of people could "sneak out" shove a huge great flag pole up... ...and it take the authorities months to even know it is there, then even longer to figure out how it got there and what to do about it...

Probably putting it on a forum was not the best plan!!

Question of planning... ...it is the landowner's responsibility to get planning isn't it? So what is the worst you'd be charged with - littering?
 
Fascadale said:
Great photo!That's why we thought the flagpole might be a temporary structure.Unfortunately, and as a total planning virgin, I am not aware of how the planners define "temporary". Our flagpole may stand for a day, it may stand for a hundred days. It might even stand for a thousand days (I think not!)Would it be apposite to discuss how we might anchor our flagpole, or might that be appalling fred drift?
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I think Nick Hancock may have left some anchor points behind when he spent 43 days there a few years ago. You assume you'll actually be able to land and scale the rock?
 
If you're wanting to land, you would need settled weather for a couple of days to let swell die back as much as possible. This means a fair bit of motoring and therefore a fair bit of diesel.
I was out there in August and even with the last 18 hours under motor and almost no wind, there was no chance of landing.
Comhairle nan Eilean.
 
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agurney said:
If you have to post a link from Google you could have done better than the first one .. the Torygraph's for example - ttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/energy/windpower/10882869/Adventurer-sets-up-wind-turbine-on-Rockall.html
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If you have to post a link then why not make it one that you can click on ?
 
A friend was landed on in 1984 by helicopter - the Navy have standing orders to land when they pass, and to remove other people's plaques etc - they found two from French yacht clubs (good effort!)

so, i guess that the Navy probably continues doing this today?

i used to have a link about ownership of Rockall, can't find it - someone realised that it was not registered under any owner's name at the Land Registry - so put in an application. Overnight legal moves by high hegions, turned out to be registered in the Queen's name by the morning...

would dearly like to land there. good luck with the trip out this summer.
 
bikedaft said:
A friend was landed on in 1984 by helicopter - the Navy have standing orders to land when they pass, and to remove other people's plaques etc - they found two from French yacht clubs (good effort!)

so, i guess that the Navy probably continues doing this today?

i used to have a link about ownership of Rockall, can't find it - someone realised that it was not registered under any owner's name at the Land Registry - so put in an application. Overnight legal moves by high hegions, turned out to be registered in the Queen's name by the morning...

would dearly like to land there. good luck with the trip out this summer.
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I hope he recovered.
 
bikedaft said:
i used to have a link about ownership of Rockall, can't find it - someone realised that it was not registered under any owner's name at the Land Registry - so put in an application. Overnight legal moves by high hegions, turned out to be registered in the Queen's name by the morning...
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The version I favour was that in the early days of the cold war it was realised that Rockall was not listed as anyone's posession and there was a panic on in case Russia got there first and was able to assert territorial waters etc and have an excuse to hang around there - it being prime territory for nuc subs of all kinds.

Anyhoo, I doubt if an ownership claim could be registered on territory that UK did not own...In any case the ownership of territory is surely ratified by some interenational body rather than the UK Land Registry


What I hadn't realised until just now was that Rockall is not alone, there is another smaller rock called Hasselwood Rock a few hundred metres away and a couple miles further to the NE is the Helen's Shoal which is a mere 1m above high water and thus all but permanently awash.
Not a nice place to be on a dark night I imagine.
 
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Normalfornorfolk said:
Anyhoo, I doubt if an ownership claim could be registered on territory that UK did not own...In any case the ownership of territory is surely ratified by some interenational body rather than the UK Land Registry
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I think you mis-understand. If you accept that it is UK Owned, then the determination of who in the UK owns the land is from the land registry. If there is a piece of land that is unregistered - you can legally try to claim it. Its a fairly complex process but it is possible. https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/unregistered-land-practice-guides
 
ShinyShoe said:
I think you mis-understand. If you accept that it is UK Owned, then the determination of who in the UK owns the land is from the land registry. If there is a piece of land that is unregistered - you can legally try to claim it. Its a fairly complex process but it is possible. https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/unregistered-land-practice-guides
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There seems to be a separate registry for Scotland, so Rockall probably doesn't feature in the registry for England and Wales.
 
from Andy Wightman "Land Reform and Land Restitution in Post-Feudal
Scotland" www.andywightman.com/docs/paper_2.pdf



"Rockall Picture;
The United Kingdom, Ireland, Iceland, Denmark all claim the rock. It is strategically
significant as it sits on the Rockall Bank which is believed to contain significant
deposits of oil and natural gas
The British originally claimed ownership on Rockall in 1955. On 18 September of
that year Captain Connell of HMS Vidal, acting in pursuance of a Royal Warrant, led
a naval expedition which landed on the rock, planted a Union flag, affixed a bronze
plaque and formally annexed Rockall to the British Crown. Lieutenant-Commander
Scott announced to his two companions on the rock and to the bemused puffins,
guilliemots and other seabirds in the area
"In the name of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, I hereby take possession of this
island of Rockall."
The three men stood to attention as the flag was raised,and HMS Vidal sailed past
and unleashed a 21-gun salute.

The plaque, which together with the flag have long been washed away read
"By authority of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, by the Grace of God of the United
Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of her other realms and
territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith etc., etc., etc.,
and in accordance with Her Majesty's instructions dated the 14th day of September,
1955, a landing was effected this day upon this island of Rockall from HMS Vidal.
The Union flag was hoisted and possession of the island was taken in the name of
Her Majesty. [Signed] R H Connell, Captain, HMS Vidal, 18th September, 1955."
(This photo actually depicts a landing some years later during one of a regular
15
series of visits to assert British sovereignty.)
The reasons for this dramatic action was fear that the rock might be used by a
foreign power to track missiles which were shortly to be tested from the rocket
range on the Island of South Uist
it has been some time since the UK has conducted such imperial adventures and
no doubt Captain Connell relished his duties that day.
But stranger things were yet to happen. In 1972, the Rockall Act was passed by
Parliament. Section I provides that “from the date of the passing of this Act (10
February 1972), the Island of Rockall....shall be incorporated into that part of the
United Kingdom known as Scotland and shall form part of the district of Harris in
the County of Inverness, and the law of Scotland shall apply accordingly.”
In 1975 two Glasgow solicitors noted that there was, whilst the UK had annexed
Rockall in 1955 and confirmed its claim in the 1972 Act, no title had been recorded.
They thus submitted an a non domino disposition in their favour and submitted it
for recording in the Register of Sasines (this Register’s name I should mention is
derived from the French verb saisir meaning ‘to seize’ which is quite fitting really!
What followed was something of a farce as the Keeper of the Registers realised
the potential significance of the deed. He returned it to them on the spurious
grounds that they did not appear to have paid stamp duty - tax paid on property
transactions. As a transaction of no value, however, stamp duty was not liable.
However, this delay allowed the Crown Office to be alerted and for them to prepare
a deed in the name of Her majesty which was promptly recorded (with no stamp
duty payable) on By the time the Glasgow pair had verified the non liability to
stamp duty and resubmitted the deed, the Queen had got there before them.

Thus the record of Rockall’s title appears in the Registers thus."

i knew i hadn't dreamt it :-)
 
Mad Pad said:
County Donegal?
After all Ireland also has a claim along with Iceland and the Faroes.
The nearest mainland is in the republic
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What does “mainland” mean in that context? Britain, Ireland, Harris/Lewis and Uist are all in fact islands. And Rockall looks to be around 200nm from S Uist, 210nm from Harris and 235nm from the Republic of Ireland.
 
dunedin said:
What does “mainland” mean in that context? Britain, Ireland, Harris/Lewis and Uist are all in fact islands. And Rockall looks to be around 200nm from S Uist, 210nm from Harris and 235nm from the Republic of Ireland.
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I'm on mainland Lewis- most of you bunch are on an offshore island, as I occasionally point out to some geographically challenged delivery companies.

Re Rockall, if the Paddies wanted it they should have included it in whatever treaty gave them independence, too late to complain now!
 
bikedaft said:
"In the name of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, I hereby take possession of this
island of Rockall."
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If Rockall is part of Scotland, as the 1972 Act states, then who is this Queen Elizabeth II? Scotland has never had an ER 1. England's first Queen Beth was just that, England's, I have never understood how this numerological conundrum be resolved.

In Scotland the title of the heir apparent to the throne of the United Kingdom(s) is the Duke of Rothesay https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_of_Rothesay
 
Fascadale said:
If Rockall is part of Scotland, as the 1972 Act states, then who is this Queen Elizabeth II? Scotland has never had an ER 1. England's first Queen Beth was just that, England's, I have never understood how this numerological conundrum be resolved.

In Scotland the title of the heir apparent to the throne of the United Kingdom(s) is the Duke of Rothesay https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_of_Rothesay
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All together now .........

Nae Liz the Twa, nae Lillibet the Wan
Nae Liz will ever dae
We'll mak oor land republican
In a Scottish breakaway
 
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