What could be done to improve the LIBS?

[mjf]

Its a shame if it dies as I have and others have indicated its a nice day out now I have got used to Excel iso Earls Court. The attempt a few years back to try this venue in the Christmas run up did not repeat the experience. That was a Cowes high st pop up affair with a few boats.

Couple of brokers / sales types said this year issue was it was run too close to NYE parties etc and their clients were still on holiday etc.

German show timing was the cause this year. Likewise SIBS time gets in a twist from the SoF shows and for me Goodwood Revival w/e.

Have the LIBS 2015 dates been announced - cant remember a 'See You Next Year' sign on my departures?

 

[rafiki_]

Is it the manufacturers, the dealers or both that fund the exhibition costs? Clearly for foreign manufacturers most of the costs burden would sit with the dealer/distributor. These are significant sums to find. For the likes of Sun/Prin/Fair, they have a mature dealer group, who can burden some of the costs. Why are UK exhibitor costs higher than others? No easy answers to these q's, as I don't believe anyone really gets rich on running exhibitions. The facilities are clearly quite substantial, so running costs high. Sorry, just some musings, but I too would miss LIBS. While I enjoy SIBS, LIBS just feels an easy afternoon/evening out, meet up with some old friends, and get a feel for the industry.

 

[grumpyoldman]

Visited with a couple of friends scheduled Saturday and Sunday.

We had a reasonable shopping list for bits and pieces for both power and sail perhaps 7k between us (had not been for two years Sibs only in the meantime) spent 630 only we didn't bother with Sunday, couple of hours was enough to see all the "show".

Two or three ok stands rest staffed with bored, uninterested and lack of knowledge personnel. Came away feeling the operation was a complete ripoff we could equal or beat the "show offers" on the internet or phone. Magazines have better information on the products than the staff in some cases, one person asked us "do we do that" had to show them their own brochure!.

Düsseldorf for us next week, Libs is now permanently off our list - entry, food, drinks all a blatant unapologetic rip off. This should be allowed to die - too late for it to be gracefully.

Very Disappointed

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Is it the manufacturers, the dealers or both that fund the exhibition costs? Clearly for foreign manufacturers most of the costs burden would sit with the dealer/distributor. These are significant sums to find. For the likes of Sun/Prin/Fair, they have a mature dealer group, who can burden some of the costs. Why are UK exhibitor costs higher than others? .

IMHO, exhibition costs are high in the UK because property values are high and obviously organisers have to make a return. That is obviously particularly the case in London and SE. There are also other reasons why UK exhibition costs are higher; as usual, gold plated UK 'elf and safety regulations always apply. I know that moving large bits of equipment in and out of exhibition halls is a nightmare of method statements and risk assessments; luckily I delegate dealing with that particular pleasure to somebody else in my organisation. Then there are hotel costs for staff and customers which always seem to be higher in the UK.
I was speaking to one exhibitor at LIBS and he was saying that in his case, the costs are shared between the dealers and the manufacturers. Thats certainly the way that I work in my business

 

[rosewood]

Anything over 16ft tall would be a problem, most 50ft upwards boats would need serious dismantling done to put on the road, this all adds to cost, why have a boat show so far away from the water?[/QUOTE]

I can see that. But there were only a very few boats on the water anyway

 

[Ferretti 881RPH Dreamer]

It is Company policy that anyone is welcome to look over the Sunseeker boats.

No one is EVER refused.

If you are a known client you are shown over the boats by your contact with the distributor, and if you are a casual looker you have to stand in line with all other interested parties.

But all are treated with respect and curtesy.

Maybe someone should tell princess boats because unless you have an appointment or a broker with you they don't want to know...

 

[P4Paul]

Maybe someone should tell princess boats because unless you have an appointment or a broker with you they don't want to know...

I have to admit that hasn't been my experience of Princess, yes you may have to wait to get aboard a particular boat if they have a 'hot lead' viewing it but other than that, we have always been made welcome and viewed any boat we wanted.

 

[Talulah]

LIBS attendance is down again but there is growth in the industry.
http://www.mby.com/news/535896/visi...ndon-boat-show-but-industry-outlook-improving
I suspect it's a case of will NBS and current exhibitors hang in there until the growth also has a positive knock on affect to boat show attendance?

 

[Spi D]

Thousands of boats, brands, technology, training and free interactive attractions have filled the nine days

Thousands? Surely feels as if I missed something, then.

Unless new tempting attractions are added, 2013 was my one and only visit to LIBS. As stated also by others, Düsseldorf is bigger, wider and about the same distance from home as LIBS ans SIBS.

The German website looks promising too. Other shows could learn from eg. including public transportation in the show ticket.

 

[EME]

Courtesy of a different 'bit' of IPC, a slightly more upbeat take on LIBS from IBI

https://plus.ibinews.com/article/th...n_boat_show_turned_a_corner/?nsl=ccMald79Sjc4


-- well at least we now know there were somewhere between 6 and 19 new UK product launches this year

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

LIBS attendance is down again but there is growth in the industry.
http://www.mby.com/news/535896/visi...ndon-boat-show-but-industry-outlook-improving
I suspect it's a case of will NBS and current exhibitors hang in there until the growth also has a positive knock on affect to boat show attendance?

Looks like there was a surge in visitor numbers on the last weekend because one exhibitor told me that official visitor numbers for the first 5 days were 15% down. I went on the final Saturday and it felt like it was quite busy. Overall though considering there were no weather interruptions, its got to be a disappointing number

 

[kashurst]

I'm not sure attendance numbers are quite as important to the main exhibitors - surely its how many brand new shiny boats and bits of kit that get sold at the show or as a result of the show. If the excel boat show didn't create enough new sales, companies wouldn't exhibit there. There are plenty of alternative shows they can exhibit at. I went to LIBs on the first monday and it was very very quiet, but there were a lot of asian/chinese people looking hard. So what if a few years ago there were 150,000 visitors and this year only 90,000 or so. The show needs about 100 - 200 genuine buyers, not 100,000 fender kickers.

I am guessing that the big three would be looking at selling @ 15 - 20 boats each at the show plus further deals signed off a few months later after part exchanges and seatrials done. They don't spend all that money for the entertainment of the great majority of visitors who buy a few odds and sods and then go on all the new boats and day dream (I include myself in this).

 

[ari]

So what if a few years ago there were 150,000 visitors and this year only 90,000 or so. The show needs about 100 - 200 genuine buyers, not 100,000 fender kickers.

I am guessing that the big three would be looking at selling @ 15 - 20 boats each at the show plus further deals signed off a few months later after part exchanges and seatrials done. They don't spend all that money for the entertainment of the great majority of visitors who buy a few odds and sods and then go on all the new boats and day dream (I include myself in this).

Nail hit on head there I suspect. Maybe lower numbers actually improve the results for the builders?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I'm not sure attendance numbers are quite as important to the main exhibitors - surely its how many brand new shiny boats and bits of kit that get sold at the show or as a result of the show. If the excel boat show didn't create enough new sales, companies wouldn't exhibit there. There are plenty of alternative shows they can exhibit at. I went to LIBs on the first monday and it was very very quiet, but there were a lot of asian/chinese people looking hard. So what if a few years ago there were 150,000 visitors and this year only 90,000 or so. The show needs about 100 - 200 genuine buyers, not 100,000 fender kickers.

I am guessing that the big three would be looking at selling @ 15 - 20 boats each at the show plus further deals signed off a few months later after part exchanges and seatrials done. They don't spend all that money for the entertainment of the great majority of visitors who buy a few odds and sods and then go on all the new boats and day dream (I include myself in this).

The big three might be happy although I always take stories of people rocking up out of the blue to buy boats at boat shows with a very large pinch of salt. I can't imagine that anybody goes to a boat show and makes a buying decision on a whim. If there are any contracts signed at boat shows its more likely that the signings are set up by the dealers so that the manufacturers can have a willy waving contest afterwards about numbers of sales. The fact that so many other exhibitors have deserted the show probably tells you more about the true value of LIBS in sales terms than whether or not the big 3 mobo builders are there. In any case, 3 boat builders taking a few orders does not make a boat show. Any exhibition depends on the organisers making a profit from the show and with diminishing numbers of both exhibitors and visitors, then the likelihood of the organisers making an acceptable profit also diminishes. So unless the big 3 mobo builders are willing to pay ever higher stand space costs to compensate the organisers for the lack of other exhibitors in order to keep the show solvent, then the figures are not going to stack up at some stage sooner or later

 

[BartW]

The big three might be happy although I always take stories of people rocking up out of the blue to buy boats at boat shows with a very large pinch of salt. I can't imagine that anybody goes to a boat show and makes a buying decision on a whim. If there are any contracts signed at boat shows its more likely that the signings are set up by the dealers so that the manufacturers can have a willy waving contest afterwards about numbers of sales. The fact that so many other exhibitors have deserted the show probably tells you more about the true value of LIBS in sales terms than whether or not the big 3 mobo builders are there. In any case, 3 boat builders taking a few orders does not make a boat show. Any exhibition depends on the organisers making a profit from the show and with diminishing numbers of both exhibitors and visitors, then the likelihood of the organisers making an acceptable profit also diminishes. So unless the big 3 mobo builders are willing to pay ever higher stand space costs to compensate the organisers for the lack of other exhibitors in order to keep the show solvent, then the figures are not going to stack up at some stage sooner or later

Mike, I agree with you,

but IMO the organisers need to adapt their shows to the modern needs, and a changing world, with a new business model,
not stick with what they are used to.

a similar thing happened in our business with a local exhibition which has been big during many years, but at a certain moment the focus of the organisers was not good anymore it was far too costly, and visitor numbers came down,
exhibitors like me were not satisfied, , the big exhibitors refused to show up,so the organisation was forced to stop
already the next year, distrubutors and or manufacturers firstly organised individual private "shows", or open housers, ...
and one year later they came together to organise a smaller and totally different network event, a new show was born.
after a few more years this show is now established and mature, smaller, better, more focussed, and at a fraction of the cost of the old show.

a similar thing could happen with boat shows in UK,
despite all the negative comments about the actual LIBS;
I believe some time last year there was a small boat show organised by the famous 2 or 3 builders,
the number of visitors was small, but I could read only positive comments about it on here,
that was outside, in a marina, but it prooves there is room for new events.

Imho, there needs to be a complete new approach for organising a indoor show in UK.
perhaps a totally different , cost, place, .... organisation.
I've only been ones at LIBS, so I'm perhaps not in a good position to talk,
but the exhibition topic has been high on the agenda during many years here in my business,
so thats why I have a opinion on this.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

a similar thing happened in our business with a local exhibition which has been big during many years, but at a certain moment the focus of the organisers was not good anymore it was far too costly, and visitor numbers came down,
exhibitors like me were not satisfied, , the big exhibitors refused to show up,so the organisation was forced to stop
already the next year, distrubutors and or manufacturers firstly organised individual private "shows", or open housers, ...
and one year later they came together to organise a smaller and totally different network event, a new show was born.
after a few more years this show is now established and mature, smaller, better, more focussed, and at a fraction of the cost of the old show.

Exactly the same happened in my industry. There used to be an expensive exhibition is a proper exhibition hall but all the exhibitors started complaining about costs and reducing visitor numbers, especially after the recession hit in 2008. The organisers didn't take any notice with the result that in 2010, they couldn't attract enough exhibitors and cancelled the exhibition only days beforehand. Since then another organiser has set up a much cheaper and more simple exhibition with costs only a fraction of the other one and it has been well supported, including by us. OK it is not in a glitzy flashy location but the same visitors still come and the cost/visitor ratio is much more attractive. Yes, we have started doing in house shows too and special events like driving days and sports hospitality which allow us to give our target customers far more attention so in truth, these events are much more effective for us in terms of promoting sales. Yes there was a small boat show last year in the UK organised by the 3 main UK boatbuilders at Swanwick near Southampton and I understand it was quite successful. I certainly enjoyed it but that was mainly because jfm was dispensing drinks on his superb new Sq78

 

[Richard Shead]

The big three might be happy although I always take stories of people rocking up out of the blue to buy boats at boat shows with a very large pinch of salt. I can't imagine that anybody goes to a boat show and makes a buying decision on a whim. If there are any contracts signed at boat shows its more likely that the signings are set up by the dealers so that the manufacturers can have a willy waving contest afterwards about numbers of sales. The fact that so many other exhibitors have deserted the show probably tells you more about the true value of LIBS in sales terms than whether or not the big 3 mobo builders are there. In any case, 3 boat builders taking a few orders does not make a boat show. Any exhibition depends on the organisers making a profit from the show and with diminishing numbers of both exhibitors and visitors, then the likelihood of the organisers making an acceptable profit also diminishes. So unless the big 3 mobo builders are willing to pay ever higher stand space costs to compensate the organisers for the lack of other exhibitors in order to keep the show solvent, then the figures are not going to stack up at some stage sooner or later

Couple of things...By Wednesday the numbers were truly shocking with one day up to 19% down. Roll in Sir Ben on Wednesday and the advance tickets went through the roof (within reason) Thursday you were looking at about a total of 55k through the gate. The bulk of numbers came through on the last few days and Sunday was surprisingly good and we were still trading till 1700 hours which is unusual for a Sunday.

With regards to cold sales as much as I hate it I am afraid there are a number of cold sales that do come through, some very large but we are talking perhaps one per large builder however it only take one big job to pay for their presence. As long as this continues to be the case then they are going to exhibit, why wouldn't they?

The MOBO side still continues to be reasonably strong and you could say that if you were into mobos then there is a day there for you looking around power alone.

As for Sail that's a different story and I am afraid that with Paris in December and Düsseldorf at the end of Jan London will always be the poor relation particularly with the market still as it is. I cannot see how it will recover from this unless there is an influx of new British builders.

As it stands it was better than last year and the one (extened hall lets not forget) works better than two.

All we need now is for Sunseeker to chop their stand in half so you have them on the left and the right which would then allow a clear view all the way down the hall and not give the impression its two shows.

I objected to this last year and did the same this year and cannot understand why they would not want to take the opportunity of doing something very different at this show.

As for the financials a little digging will soon have them in your hand and you are correct it will need the buy in of all exhibitors AND visitors to continue to make it a success. However London as a trade show is NOT an expensive place to exhibit out compared to other shows outside of the marine sector.

The orgaisers are not in it for profit they are in it to put on a show for their members that will deliver an audience that will buy their product.

Anyhow that's my take on it!

 

[henryf]

Is it possible that more and more people are choosing to take holidays over the Christmas period. By the time they get back into the UK it is early January - actually more people have Christmas at home in the UK then go overseas for New Year so they are getting back towards the end of the first week in Jan.

Upon returning to the UK it's back to business, sorting your life out and so finding a day to go to the boat show in the first two weeks of January is difficult.

Purely my humble opinion - but I know I'm right

Henry

 

[Richard Shead]

Is it possible that more and more people are choosing to take holidays over the Christmas period. By the time they get back into the UK it is early January - actually more people have Christmas at home in the UK then go overseas for New Year so they are getting back towards the end of the first week in Jan.

Upon returning to the UK it's back to business, sorting your life out and so finding a day to go to the boat show in the first two weeks of January is difficult.

Purely my humble opinion - but I know I'm right

Henry

Indeed you are right....I went skiing on the 28th Dec and flew back in on the 4th (ok morning of the 5th) so even I missed the first Sat! I still dont know what day of the week it is...

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

With regards to cold sales as much as I hate it I am afraid there are a number of cold sales that do come through, some very large but we are talking perhaps one per large builder however it only take one big job to pay for their presence. As long as this continues to be the case then they are going to exhibit, why wouldn't they?

I wouldn't disagree but as I said, 3 exhibitors taking an order or 2 on their stands does not make a show that covers it's costs for the organisers (OK I understand that the show doesn't have to make a profit but surely it has to wash it's face) and given the fact that LIBS has been losing exhibitors year on year, it seems that it is only a very few exhibitors who are taking orders. Btw where were all the chandlery stands this year? May be I missed them. Yes I agree that a single hall works better and I also agree that the Sunseeker stand does cut the hall in half; I nearly didn't walk past it.
I just want to make the point that although I have been critical of LIBS on this thread and previous ones, it is for the best of reasons. I am old enough to remember the buzz and excitement of the Earls Court show not to mention the fact that at times you couldn't move in the aisles for visitors. At that time it felt like LIBS was the best boat show in the world. I am not pining for the show to go back to Earls Court but there is no point in hiding the fact that the current version of LIBS at Excel is but a shadow of it's former self and unless the organisers address the concerns of exhibitors and visitors, LIBS is going to die and I, for one, would be very sad about that