What cartridge for prefilters, 10 or 30 microns

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Doh! It's not like they are hard to see, either. I'm surprised to have never noticed them!
.

Dont be too hard on yourself. The above photo was taken after the filters were moved for the Seakeeper installation and I dont think you've been on my boat since then. The filters were originally here where the MAN prefilter is much harder to see

Actually I'm not happy about the new position for the filters because it is very easy for anybody moving between the engines to inadvertently knock the levers with their feet. You can see in the above photo that the levers are in the correct position but in my first photo the levers are in different positions. I didnt notice this until near the end of last season which probably meant that the fuel going to my engines was not going through both filters I wont hijack your thread with this but I was thinking about putting up a thread about where else the filters could be moved to where they would be more secure

 

[MapisM]

So back to your Q my “ prefilter “ are glass - real glass and I don’t think aftermarket.

Real glass or not is a bit of a red herring, because depending on the chemistry, glass could well crack earlier than plastic, when directly exposed to fire.
Anyway, of course there are also Racor and Separ with transparent bowl, and for a good reason.
But they also have a metallic fire protection (the cup shield underneath), which as explained also in the article that you linked is relevant to ABYC approval.
Assuming to have (as you do, IIRC) also the usual prefilters with transparent bowl, I'd be happier to have a metallic bowl in that thing attached to the pump, as in previous pics.
But if you should argue that this is a hair splitting point, well, I'd have no choice but to admit to be guilty as charged!

 

[MrB]

Real glass or not is a bit of a red herring, because depending on the chemistry, glass could well crack earlier than plastic, when directly exposed to fire.

Wouldn't the glass bowls be made from a toughened glass like Pyrex? Heat-proof? Makes sense to me?

 

[MapisM]

The above photo was taken after the filters were moved for the Seakeeper installation and I dont think you've been on my boat since then.

Aha! Yep, I've yet to see your SK installation, and the second pic sounds much more familiar!
In fact, you might remember that I was right there together with Andrea, when he spotted the tiny leak from the exhaust flange.

Ref. the new installation, I agree that it looks more exposed to accidental movements, but unless I'm mistaken, it's in a position where I would be much happier to work and have fresh air nearby, if you should ever replace a clogged cartridge at sea.
Compromises, as always...

 

[MapisM]

Wouldn't the glass bowls be made from a toughened glass like Pyrex? Heat-proof? Makes sense to me?

Possibly, no idea. My point was simply that "real" glass isn't per se a guarantee of better heat/fire resistance....

 

[MrB]

Possibly, no idea. My point was simply that "real" glass isn't per se a guarantee of better heat/fire resistance....

I agree with you so had a mooch on Google. If they were pyrex they would have it on the bowls themselves. I found this from YBW archives and one has a good point, rubber fuel hoses would be more of a concern.

http://www.ybw.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-118529.html

 

[Portofino]

Possibly, no idea. My point was simply that "real" glass isn't per se a guarantee of better heat/fire resistance....

Let’s just assume there’s a certain satisfactory time test before a fire busts them .
Which if longer than the same heat puncturing any of the black “ rubber “ fuel hoses nearby , makes the safety argument s silly ?
It’s those black rubbber hoses you need to think about rupturing in a fire scenario .

So the Achilles heel imho are the black hose - see Deleted User,s pics of the hose spaghetti

MAN send the whole units world wide in a crate ready to plug n play .
I would think a glass prefilter is more use than a none glass as you can use that natural miraculous instrument of preventive maintenance aka the Mk 1 eye ball .
To see slime , black , or what ever ??

The two next cartridges are metal jackets ( with drain cocks - 10 mm spanner ) so it’s any body’s guess what’s going on clogging wise inside .

I like the little glass widow / bowl .Can see the colour of the fuel as it goes in .

Just rtn to the fire thing , the bulb of the auto extinguisher is about a close above the fuel pump , filters as it can be , so hopefully any heat generated to damage any black rubber pipes or this glass bowl thing will set that off before puncturing any vessel with fuel in .
Furthermore I have fuel remote fuel cock shut off toggles at the helm along with airvent shutters and manual gas release .

I have dropped one and it bounced on the bilge floor , so they ain’t delicate .

As for filtering my view is they are rock stoppers only , iam under no illusion that rinsing them in fuel from a filter POV is as much use as a chocolate tea pot .
Greatfull the builder fitted a pair of proper racor primary’s + WIF ,s as well .

Racors have a I think plastic / perfexi transparent bowls situated lower down like Mikes relatively to the engine filters .

 

[Portofino]

I agree with you so had a mooch on Google. If they were pyrex they would have it on the bowls themselves. I found this from YBW archives and one has a good point, rubber fuel hoses would be more of a concern.

http://www.ybw.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-118529.html

X post I type slow
I,am on the boat next week and endeavour to take some pics of the things to see if they have any google able markings .
And report back .

 

[MrB]

X post I type slow
I,am on the boat next week and endeavour to take some pics of the things to see if they have any google able markings .
And report back .

I agree with you and I do not think the glass bowls are as fragile as people think. I would say they were toughened glass and could withstand considerable heat. I will do some research tomorrow if i get the time and report back.

 

[MrB]

Just grabbed this from the Parker website..."Racor uses a unique durable clear plasticbowl material with high clarity, excellentUV protection, low and high temperatureresistance, is impact resistant, and isimpervious to all fuel types."

I'll do more research tomorrow.

 

[MapisM]

So the Achilles heel imho are the black hose - see Deleted User,s pics of the hose spaghetti

Actually, the new placement looks to me better than the factory one in this respect, at least for what can be seen in the previous pics.
Anyway, why are you mentioning that, don't you have the same stuff on your boat?
Afaik, metal fuel hoses are as rare as hens' teeth, in pleasure boats.

Regardless, my guess is that MAN reason for fitting that small (to the point of being a bit laughable, if we are honest) prefilter is simply that they could do that very easily, on 6L engines.
So, they might have thought that it was better than nothing, in the event that a builder wouldn't install a proper centrifugal+alarmed prefilter - which is what any half decent builder would do of course, but you never know.
In fact, in the V engines manual, the installation of a separate prefilter is specifically recommended, while I didn't find the same statement in the 6L manual.

 

[Assassin]

To give personal experience Mapis, we used standard 30 micron pre filters on industrial engines (MAN and Cummins) and we had a batch of 15 micron ones delivered and they replaced the 30 micron filters originally fitted and they clogged up in no time, the second stage filtering had nothing to do and were nearly clean, and the engine filters were pretty much the same.

Our experience taught us that it is a question of balance and flow, the system was balanced for a tri filter system and with the pre filters catching so much debris it restricted them and limited the fuel flow to the point where the vacuum from the pump was insufficient to draw enough fuel through for the load on the engines.

 

[petem]

X post I type slow
I,am on the boat next week and endeavour to take some pics of the things to see if they have any google able markings .
And report back .

Racor and Separ offer metal and 'glass' bowls. I believe Fairline fitted the metal bowls as standard which I understood was for compliance with the UK BSS. However, the BSS states the following which would suggest that glass is acceptable:

"Fuel filters can be prone to the heat from a fire and impact damage. Failure of a fuel filter can lead to additional fuel being added to any fire. You must only use appropriate fire resistant and impact resistant fuel filters designed for marine use. Clear bowl, glass or plastic filters meeting these criteria are acceptable, as long as they are designed for use with the fuel-type. Alternatively fuel filters marked with ISO 10088 are also acceptable. [2.16]"

Perhaps it's like other Fairline 'features', done the way that Sam Newington liked them to be done.

Pete

 

[BartW]

answer to your Q,

when we purchased BA in Italy in 2011, she had 30micron Racor pre filters, and we continued to replace with the same,
from 2014 in Montengro, Ilko used 10 micron Racors, my spares set of filters were 30 micron, so I asked Ilko about the difference,
He said that I can use both that it doesn't make much difference (?), he uses what's available.
since last year I'm using 30 micron again.

I've never seen any dirt or anything different on none of the cartridges that we replaced, (tbh didn't give that much attention)
but as you know we have a "fuel decantation box" right before these filters, and I drain the bottom of that box before every fuel filling,
every time some dirty fuel comes out. (1..2L per side)

 

[kashurst]

I have tended to use 10micron pre filters on 63p, D9s and now kamd300s. If the tanks/fuel are clean no problems. If there is a fuel problem you just find out sooner. I think the engine filters are either 5 micron or 2 micron if electronic injection.

 

[Montemar]

Presumably where there are two identical filters on an engine they must be connected in parallel?
There is only one on my non CR TAMD41B so have no experience of more sophisticated systems

 

[gjgm]

I have tended to use 10micron pre filters on 63p, D9s and now kamd300s. If the tanks/fuel are clean no problems. If there is a fuel problem you just find out sooner. I think the engine filters are either 5 micron or 2 micron if electronic injection.

I guess there are innumerable possibilities, but if finding out sooner means breaking down at sea, I think I would prefer a set up that gave me a better chance of getting to harbour?

 

[Portofino]

Assuming to have (as you do, IIRC) also the usual prefilters with transparent bowl, I'd be happier to have a metallic bowl in that thing attached to the pump,

Went down to the boat ( 40 min flight for CH fc 40 rtn ) They are indeed metal ,you are right and op apologies for the error on my behalf
.View attachment 75624
View attachment 75625

So we have a racor fg 900 with clear bowls then this “ pre filter “ then a pair of screw on canisters so 4 filters .Starting at 30 microns in the racors .

Sorry pics are sideways

 

[MapisM]

No worries PF, I already went through the stage when I was sure to remember things like these correctly, while I actually didn't.
So, I can confirm you that it will get better, since over time you'll get used to be fooled by your own memory!