What boat for the Fastnet Race?

[bedouin]

2/3rds of the fleet thought otherwise in 2007.

True - but the vast majority actually started the race.

I think a lot of the problem was that the wind had dropped to the top end of F8 from about F10 (IIRC) so the sea state was much rougher than you would normally get in a gale.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Also very bendy when new, and likely to be even more so now.

Is that the Macgregor 65? or the other 'Bendy Toy' that most are familiar of?

Would be interested to know more,

S.

 

[doris]

A main, three headsails and two kites will do fine. Surely your rating is affected by the sails you have?

Plus trisail, storm jib, lightweight kite.

 

[flaming]

A main, three headsails and two kites will do fine. Surely your rating is affected by the sails you have?

Not really, no.

You get a main, as many headsails as you like and 3 kites without a rating change. For offshore work, especially in something that could use a code 0, the small hit for the 4th kite is often considered worthwhile. Also, you can decide which kites to take up until the prep signal, so you may well own more and make the call based on the forecast. So for example an offshore wardrobe for a 35 boat expecting to place could be. Main, trisail, light number 1. Heavy 2. Number 3, number 4, storm jib, jib top. Then choice of A0, A1, S2, S4, A5.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

you can decide which kites to take up until the prep signal, so you may well own more and make the call based on the forecast..

That's interesting, how do the Race Committee know what each boat has on board with only 4 minutes to go?

 

[mrming]

That's interesting, how do the Race Committee know what each boat has on board with only 4 minutes to go?

IRC rates you for your largest kite. Anything smaller you want to carry is up to you.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

IRC rates you for your largest kite. Anything smaller you want to carry is up to you.

Ah OK, thanks for the clarification, i misread flaming's post.

 

[savageseadog]

That's interesting, how do the Race Committee know what each boat has on board with only 4 minutes to go?

You are only allowed 3 on a normal rating without penalty. How does anyone know anything about what other boats carry or what they do? It's normally done on trust in yacht racing plus there is a chance a boat could be protested or subject to a random check by the measurer. If you do well in an important race then you will be checked.

 

[doris]

FWIW
I carry 4 kites offshore and it costs me 1 point for the extra one. That's on a 39 footer rating 1.023.
More than worth while.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

You are only allowed 3 on a normal rating without penalty. How does anyone know anything about what other boats carry or what they do? It's normally done on trust in yacht racing plus there is a chance a boat could be protested or subject to a random check by the measurer. If you do well in an important race then you will be checked.

Thanks, I realise that now. My misunderstanding was that the skipper could make a decision just before the Prep signal which would affect the boats rating. If they all did so, it would be rather difficult for the race committee to keep track!

 

[horatio_nelson]

I suggest you look at the overall IRC results and put down whatever it is you are smoking.

http://fastnet.rorc.org/results/2013/rfr-irc-overall02.html

I think he was looking at the 'IIRC' results by mistake

 

[roblpm]

Depends on what you call a "decent result" and to a lesser extent what you call a "class". No argument that a JPK1010 is the boat to buy for a proper "no excuse" effort. £100k would probably not be enough though.

If you're happy with the bragging rights of being best Sigma 38, then that's a good bet for that cash. Plenty left in the budget for prep and coaching. But if you want to be well up an IRC class, then a 38 won't cut it.

There's a school of thought that says there is a required budget to win each IRC class, and whilst you can buy an old boat (e.g. Prima 38) and race off a handicap that will have you against newer, but smaller, things that isn't the best bet if you're looking for the best chance of winning. Especially as new sails for a 38 footer will still be more expensive than a 32 footer, even if it's an old boat.

So my top tips are...

1. Do it doublehanded. Much tougher, but gives you another sub class to work at, and makes your money go further.
2. Max boat size 35 feet.
3. Try and steal a JPK1010....
4. If that doesn't work, buy a J105.
5. Unless you want to ever cruise that boat. In which case you should buy a sun fast 3200.

If you don't want to doublehand, then look for a cruiser racer in the 35 foot region rating no higher than 1.040 with a good race record (boat type, not necessarily the exact boat) and spend as much as possible on coaching and sails.

I was enjoying this thread so here is a bump. Not that it is ever going to apply to me as I have been informed in another thread that at 45 I am never going to achieve sailing greatness!

Anyway a question for flaming or anyone else knowledgeable is what would be the minimum sail wardrobe (and i mean real minimum) to be say mid fleet in the double handed rorc races.

 

[flaming]

I was enjoying this thread so here is a bump. Not that it is ever going to apply to me as I have been informed in another thread that at 45 I am never going to achieve sailing greatness!

Anyway a question for flaming or anyone else knowledgeable is what would be the minimum sail wardrobe (and i mean real minimum) to be say mid fleet in the double handed rorc races.

Totally depends...

You might get lucky and only need the main and number 1 because it's all light upwind. Or it might be blowing 30+ and not hoisting a spin is fine.

Or you could see everything from calms to 40 knots on every point of sail.

But the key is to look at the part of the fleet you want to compete with and spec out a similar level. It really isn't a lot of fun to be either winning easily because you have that special sail, or knowing that you sailed well enough to win, but if was impossible in those conditions because you didn't have a sail that everyone else has.

 

[lw395]

Totally depends...

You might get lucky and only need the main and number 1 because it's all light upwind. Or it might be blowing 30+ and not hoisting a spin is fine.

Or you could see everything from calms to 40 knots on every point of sail.

But the key is to look at the part of the fleet you want to compete with and spec out a similar level. It really isn't a lot of fun to be either winning easily because you have that special sail, or knowing that you sailed well enough to win, but if was impossible in those conditions because you didn't have a sail that everyone else has.

I suspect the top guys would be mid fleet with a tired main and a furling genoa.
Lot to be said for getting out there with whatever sails you've got, until you know the sails are the biggest issue, IMHO.

 

[MrB]

Is that the Macgregor 65? or the other 'Bendy Toy' that most are familiar of?

Would be interested to know more,

S.

From what i have read they were solid boats. Just Googling the 65 and 70 brings up some astonishing reading, capable boats in virtually any weather because of the length and narrow beam. They have achieved MOBO speeds. I think the 70 was even faster than the 65. Their "race-rating figures"?? are worth looking at too.

 

[roblpm]

Totally depends...

You might get lucky and only need the main and number 1 because it's all light upwind. Or it might be blowing 30+ and not hoisting a spin is fine.

Or you could see everything from calms to 40 knots on every point of sail.

But the key is to look at the part of the fleet you want to compete with and spec out a similar level. It really isn't a lot of fun to be either winning easily because you have that special sail, or knowing that you sailed well enough to win, but if was impossible in those conditions because you didn't have a sail that everyone else has.

I assume if you are keen you can find out what sails people have by paying £12 a pop for a copy irc certificate??

 

[roblpm]

I suspect the top guys would be mid fleet with a tired main and a furling genoa.
Lot to be said for getting out there with whatever sails you've got, until you know the sails are the biggest issue, IMHO.

My main aim would be not coming last! In one season of club racing, novice skipper and novice crew (some of whom had never sailed before) we are achieving that! So a few more seasons of doing as many club races as possible. Then onwards amd upwards!

 

[bedouin]

From what i have read they were solid boats. Just Googling the 65 and 70 brings up some astonishing reading, capable boats in virtually any weather because of the length and narrow beam. They have achieved MOBO speeds. I think the 70 was even faster than the 65. Their "race-rating figures"?? are worth looking at too.

I hadn't heard of them before but they look like pretty impressive boats - or to be more precise I like the idea of the narrow beam and I don't know of any other boats like that (I did see one somewhat similar a few years ago - about 55-60ft long and 10ft wide - might have been a Sweden.

Of course around the UK the berthing on a 65' boat would be prohibitive but it would be nice to do Cherbourg in 6 hours

 

[flaming]

I assume if you are keen you can find out what sails people have by paying £12 a pop for a copy irc certificate??

That will tell you their biggest sails, but not what type of sails or how many jibs they are using. Wouldn't (for example) show if they have a code 0, as that would simply be counted as one of their kites.

 

[roblpm]

Depends on what you call a "decent result" and to a lesser extent what you call a "class". No argument that a JPK1010 is the boat to buy for a proper "no excuse" effort. £100k would probably not be enough though.

If you're happy with the bragging rights of being best Sigma 38, then that's a good bet for that cash. Plenty left in the budget for prep and coaching. But if you want to be well up an IRC class, then a 38 won't cut it.

There's a school of thought that says there is a required budget to win each IRC class, and whilst you can buy an old boat (e.g. Prima 38) and race off a handicap that will have you against newer, but smaller, things that isn't the best bet if you're looking for the best chance of winning. Especially as new sails for a 38 footer will still be more expensive than a 32 footer, even if it's an old boat.

So my top tips are...

1. Do it doublehanded. Much tougher, but gives you another sub class to work at, and makes your money go further.
2. Max boat size 35 feet.
3. Try and steal a JPK1010....
4. If that doesn't work, buy a J105.
5. Unless you want to ever cruise that boat. In which case you should buy a sun fast 3200.

If you don't want to doublehand, then look for a cruiser racer in the 35 foot region rating no higher than 1.040 with a good race record (boat type, not necessarily the exact boat) and spend as much as possible on coaching and sails.

I was just browsing through this old thread. Whilst not wanting to inflate flamings ego too much he was amazingly right. 4 jpks and a j105 in the top 5.

Jester J105 "only" managed to come 4th overall and won the double handed race. Now being sold for £70k.
http://www.keyyachting.com/brokerage/brokerage-boat-details/?BoatID=5386616

So can be done for less than 100k!

Obviously need to know what you are doing as well..........!