What boat for the Fastnet Race?

[BlueSkyNick]

Perhaps the best way to get a good race might be to buy/charter/get on a boat where there are other boats of the same design raced by similar people on similar budgets?

Aha! Somebody has spotted what I was thinking about all along !!

 

[bedouin]

For instance, if it blows F8 for the first day, do you all want to carry on regardless, or would you draw a line and come back in two years?
.

Without being Macho about it - if you would consider giving up for an F8 you shouldn't be in the race in the first place.

 

[E39mad]

A lot depends on whether you wish to be competitive within IRC or just wish to have an offshore flyer.

A Barracuda 45 whilst being extremely fast off the wind in a breeze/blow might have occasionally done well in the line honours but rarely or never on corrected time. They didn't go upwind that well either and that's where the majority of races are won or lost imho.

First 40.7 is an all rounder (please don't bring up the tragedy)

Years ago I liked the J39 and J44 - went up wind very quickly, were stiff and also quick off the wind. I used to race Beneteau's against J-Hawk (J44) as crew.

 

[lw395]

Without being Macho about it - if you would consider giving up for an F8 you shouldn't be in the race in the first place.

F8 was just a number plucked out of nowhere.
There are plenty of small boats that have enjoyed the Fastnet that I wouldn't start in if it was already blowing F8 at Gurnard.
There are bigger boats I've sailed that would lap it up.
If you want RORC to wimp out before you do, that might influence your choice of boat?

The point I was trying to make is that the crew need to have compatible limits and expectations.
Last time it was very windy, a lot of boats did give up. Maybe they should never have been in it? Maybe they were happy to enter and take a view?
As a dinghy racer, I enter events, there is a weather level where I don't bother to compete. The people I sail with are compatible with that level.
Some people I respect as good sailor to race against, stay on the beach when I'm happy to race. Some younger people go out in anything.
These things vary across a season, in an average year, you take the rough with the smooth.
Enter 50 races, fail to finish a handful, DNC a few.
Being too focussed on a single race could lead to disappointment, one error and it's 18months down the can.


I would not want to invest a year's planning and budget with people with incompatible expectations.
Particularly if expectations exceed ability to cope in some cases.
There are a lot of paying crew/passengers on the Fastnet with very little offshore mileage.

 

[bedouin]

F8 was just a number plucked out of nowhere.
There are plenty of small boats that have enjoyed the Fastnet that I wouldn't start in if it was already blowing F8 at Gurnard.
There are bigger boats I've sailed that would lap it up.
If you want RORC to wimp out before you do, that might influence your choice of boat?

I wonder what proportion of Fastnets do experience an F8 at some time, somewhere on the course - I would guess it is something close to half. I certainly wouldn't start the Fastnet in a boat (and with a crew) that I wasn't 100% confident would be operating fully in F8. Whether I would actually start in an F8 might depend on the forecast - I've started RORC races in more wind than that but doing the entire Fastnet course in F8 might not be that much fun

 

[flaming]

Depends on what you call a "decent result" and to a lesser extent what you call a "class". No argument that a JPK1010 is the boat to buy for a proper "no excuse" effort. £100k would probably not be enough though.

If you're happy with the bragging rights of being best Sigma 38, then that's a good bet for that cash. Plenty left in the budget for prep and coaching. But if you want to be well up an IRC class, then a 38 won't cut it.

There's a school of thought that says there is a required budget to win each IRC class, and whilst you can buy an old boat (e.g. Prima 38) and race off a handicap that will have you against newer, but smaller, things that isn't the best bet if you're looking for the best chance of winning. Especially as new sails for a 38 footer will still be more expensive than a 32 footer, even if it's an old boat.

So my top tips are...

1. Do it doublehanded. Much tougher, but gives you another sub class to work at, and makes your money go further.
2. Max boat size 35 feet.
3. Try and steal a JPK1010....
4. If that doesn't work, buy a J105.
5. Unless you want to ever cruise that boat. In which case you should buy a sun fast 3200.

If you don't want to doublehand, then look for a cruiser racer in the 35 foot region rating no higher than 1.040 with a good race record (boat type, not necessarily the exact boat) and spend as much as possible on coaching and sails.

 

[doris]

I wonder what proportion of Fastnets do experience an F8 at some time, somewhere on the course - I would guess it is something close to half. I certainly wouldn't start the Fastnet in a boat (and with a crew) that I wasn't 100% confident would be operating fully in F8. Whether I would actually start in an F8 might depend on the forecast - I've started RORC races in more wind than that but doing the entire Fastnet course in F8 might not be that much fun

I didn't think even RORC would start a race in a genuine F8, never mind more!
But maybe I'm getting them mixed up.

 

[roblpm]

Perhaps the best way to get a good race might be to buy/charter/get on a boat where there are other boats of the same design raced by similar people on similar budgets?
If there are half a dozen Prima 38's and you can get in the top half, that might mean more than picking the right boat on yardstick?
A J109 sounds a good choice. Some good people to race against.

A few things need to be thought about.
For instance, if it blows F8 for the first day, do you all want to carry on regardless, or would you draw a line and come back in two years?
Who do you have lined up to crew?
It seems easy to find people who want to tick the Fastnet box, not so easy to pick the people you really need and can get on with for a long race if it doesn't go quite right...
I can see the appeal of doing it shorthanded or on a smaller boat.

Depends on what you call a "decent result" and to a lesser extent what you call a "class". No argument that a JPK1010 is the boat to buy for a proper "no excuse" effort. £100k would probably not be enough though.

If you're happy with the bragging rights of being best Sigma 38, then that's a good bet for that cash. Plenty left in the budget for prep and coaching. But if you want to be well up an IRC class, then a 38 won't cut it.

There's a school of thought that says there is a required budget to win each IRC class, and whilst you can buy an old boat (e.g. Prima 38) and race off a handicap that will have you against newer, but smaller, things that isn't the best bet if you're looking for the best chance of winning. Especially as new sails for a 38 footer will still be more expensive than a 32 footer, even if it's an old boat.

So my top tips are...

1. Do it doublehanded. Much tougher, but gives you another sub class to work at, and makes your money go further.
2. Max boat size 35 feet.
3. Try and steal a JPK1010....
4. If that doesn't work, buy a J105.
5. Unless you want to ever cruise that boat. In which case you should buy a sun fast 3200.

If you don't want to doublehand, then look for a cruiser racer in the 35 foot region rating no higher than 1.040 with a good race record (boat type, not necessarily the exact boat) and spend as much as possible on coaching and sails.

Does anyone race 3200s in round the cans type racing?? I don't mean as its primary purpose but the rest of the time when no doing shorthanded fastnets??!! And why do you say its better for cruising? Its cheaper as well i think.

 

[lpdsn]

I didn't think even RORC would start a race in a genuine F8, never mind more!
But maybe I'm getting them mixed up.

I remember them starting one in a F7. Going out the Needles Channel was fun. Still have a mental picture of a Sigma 38 with its keel and rudder sticking down into the water.

That said, they clearly appreciate that a lot of pretty inexperienced crew do it and they delayed that start a few years back so that boats had a chance to give up before they reached Lands End.

 

[bedouin]

I didn't think even RORC would start a race in a genuine F8, never mind more!
But maybe I'm getting them mixed up.

I think the Myth of Malham 2012 started in F8 - we certainly were registering over 35 knots TWS at the start, but I can't vouch for the accuracy of the instrument so it might only have been the top end of F7

 

[flaming]

Does anyone race 3200s in round the cans type racing?? I don't mean as its primary purpose but the rest of the time when no doing shorthanded fastnets??!! And why do you say its better for cruising? Its cheaper as well i think.

Yeah, not front of the fleet kind of guys but they do Okish.

And it's better suited for cruising than a J105 because everything is better suited to cruising than a J105...

 

[Noahsdad]

If talking Sigma 38's, how about a Tony Castro designed Jeanneau Sunshine 38 Regate if you can find one.
Brought home a lot of silverware in the '80's and cash left to take SWMBO away for a nice holiday when you get back!

 

[Sybarite]

A purely hypothetical question which came up while day dreaming.

If one was to buy a boat with the intention of entering the Fastnet next year, with a view to getting a reasonable result in a class, what would it be? Qualifying races will also need to be completed.

Something light and quick, with basic accommodation? Or heavy, more sea kindly, and comfortable for staying aboard? What other criteria should be taken into account?

Assume a budget of £100k for purchase and race preparation, so some compromises required.

http://www.jeanneau.com/news/sun-fasts-dominate-the-first-leg-of-the-transquadra-race-1479.html

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Macgregor 65? Old but fast http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1993/Macgregor-65-2678609/United-Kingdom#.VEadPCJ4ofw

I don't usually like modern(ish) yachts but this is some beast!

If I sell the boat, the cars, all I have saved - then I'm halfway there.

S.

 

[Keen_Ed]

Also very bendy when new, and likely to be even more so now.

 

[lw395]

Perhaps we should drag this thread out at the end of august and look at what boats did well on a budget?

Different people might have different ideas of 'doing well'.

 

[Nico]

For IRC classes you are going to need 7 or 8 racing sails ...

A main, three headsails and two kites will do fine. Surely your rating is affected by the sails you have?

 

[Nico]

Without being Macho about it - if you would consider giving up for an F8 you shouldn't be in the race in the first place.

2/3rds of the fleet thought otherwise in 2007.

 

[Nico]

If you're happy with the bragging rights of being best Sigma 38, then that's a good bet for that cash.

Just don't assume it's there for the taking.

 

[Nico]

... they delayed that start a few years back so that boats had a chance to give up before they reached Lands End.

More specifically they delayed the start in 2007 so that the bad weather came in early in the race. The forecast was for a full week of F6-8 which is what happened. Some smaller boats carried on round but generally they suffered breakages.