What are the current rules for non eu boats entering eu waters?

[steve yates]

If we exit the eu in 3 weeks with no deal, I would like to get my head round what my worst case downside is for future plans on sailing to the eu. Particularly a leisurely exploration through the canal system and then a few years cruising the med.

I'm not interested in it might not happen/we will never leave/we will get a great deal etc etc. Let's just imagine the scenario where it's a complete cockup and we leave coldturkey.

How will my plans above be affected, or even curtailed? Thanks.

 

[RupertW]

If we exit the eu in 3 weeks with no deal, I would like to get my head round what my worst case downside is for future plans on sailing to the eu. Particularly a leisurely exploration through the canal system and then a few years cruising the med.

I'm not interested in it might not happen/we will never leave/we will get a great deal etc etc. Let's just imagine the scenario where it's a complete cockup and we leave coldturkey.

How will my plans above be affected, or even curtailed? Thanks.

A few other threads on this but CA advice if no deal is that goods will belong with VAT status in either U.K. or EU depending on where they are on the day following Brexit regardless of where the VAT was paid originally and therefore any move after that will assume the yacht has VAT status for only EU or UK but not both.

For people we assume it will be the 90 in 180 days Schengen rule.

 

[Graham376]

A few other threads on this but CA advice if no deal is that goods will belong with VAT status in either U.K. or EU depending on where they are on the day following Brexit regardless of where the VAT was paid originally and therefore any move after that will assume the yacht has VAT status for only EU or UK but not both.

For people we assume it will be the 90 in 180 days Schengen rule.

I think it could be quite complicated if Return of Goods Relief is taken into account, which is an EU rule not just UK. Basically, goods can be re-imported to EU (or UK), usually within 3 years although extensions are possible, without paying VAT again.

 

[st599]

If we exit the eu in 3 weeks with no deal, I would like to get my head round what my worst case downside is for future plans on sailing to the eu. Particularly a leisurely exploration through the canal system and then a few years cruising the med.

I'm not interested in it might not happen/we will never leave/we will get a great deal etc etc. Let's just imagine the scenario where it's a complete cockup and we leave coldturkey.

How will my plans above be affected, or even curtailed? Thanks.

The RYA have quite a few articles on their site now following discussions with the EU and UK Governments.

For yourself, if you don't have residency in another EU country, you will be allowed to stay enter the country for any 90 days within a rolling 180 day window. You will no longer have an automatic right to enter and may need to prove that you have means to pay for your stay, sufficient health insurance, itinerary etc. You may also need a visa - which you have to obtain in your country of residence. If you overstay, you can be banned from re-entering. There is a Commission paper offering visa free access to the EU if the UK reciprocates and allows EU citizens visa free access.

For your boat, presumably you'll need to enter at a Port of Entry. If your boat is in the UK at the time of Brexit, then it will lose its status as Union Goods (VAT Paid Status). You will be allowed to import it to the EU for up to 18 months - if it stays longer, VAT and import duties will be due. I think you can exit and re-enter to stop this charge from happening.

 

[steve yates]

for a boat built in 1974, would they look for vat on the current value? The bill of sale to me value? or the original value?

 

[st599]

Don't know. For ATA Carnets we list the purchase price.

Presumably for a yacht it would be the purchase price of the yacht and equipment adjusted for inflation and depreciation.

 

[lw395]

for a boat built in 1974, would they look for vat on the current value? The bill of sale to me value? or the original value?

For a boat built in 1974, you're probably not looking to permanently import it into the EU?
There will be some bureaucracy, but a month or three in the EU won't be a real problem.
If you did want to permanently import it, you'd be into all sorts of grief of paying VAT and potentially getting a survey to satisfy the RCD.
There may be exemptions or loopholes to play, but I'm taking the view that if I want a boat to be based in the EU, the easy and sensible way is to buy one in the EU.
In much the same way as currently I can see lots of interesting cheap boats in the US on Yachtworld, but buying one might work out stressful!

 

[steve yates]

I don't want to permanently import it, but I do want to spend a couple of years or so in the med

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I don't want to permanently import it, but I do want to spend a couple of years or so in the med

I had a similar situation in Croatia. Had to move the boat out of Croatian waters every 18 months to reset the clock. It meant a day clearing out of customs at a port of entry, sailing out to sea (12 miles offshore), turning round and coming back in through the same port of entry. Perfectly legal and the customs officials were used to it. Never had a problem, it was pretty routine. More of a problem is the 90 days in 180. Means you can never stay on the boat more than 3 months at a stretch and you have to wait another 3 months before you can come back again. Need to be careful how you arrange your visits because if the 18 month export/import occurs when you have to be out of the EU then you have a problem. That being said, loads of non-EU citizens cruise in the EU with non-EU boats and they all cope, it's just not as easy as it used to be. You could for example spend your time going back and forth between Croatia, Greece Italy and Turkey ... that leaves plenty of opportunity to visit non-EU countries in order to stick to the rules.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

... and when I did eventually import my boat into the EU, the value was decided by Croatian Customs ... receipts etc. are pretty irrelevant - they are only interested in the market value on the day of import. IIRC they have a book of boat prices which they use as a basis and they will inspect the boat.

 

[steve yates]

I was kind of hoping it might be like that, as she is a mab, I think she would be valued pretty low if we decided it would be simpler to import her. Still doesnt solve the 90/180 rules though I ilek the idea of turkey/tunisia etc.

 

[BigJoe]

I was kind of hoping it might be like that, as she is a mab, I think she would be valued pretty low if we decided it would be simpler to import her. Still doesnt solve the 90/180 rules though I ilek the idea of turkey/tunisia etc.

Your best bet would be to head south and apply for resadancy in Portugal and / or Spain, then you could sail between the two contries for as long as you want.

 

[Bathdave]

I live in jersey and have a non vat paid jersey registered boat.

So I am outside the EU and visit regularly ( France a couple of dozen times a year, the UK from time to time)

No one in France has ever shown the slightest bit of interest ...never once been asked to show any papers

On my visits to Uk, again noone interested.

When I arrived in Falmouth last year I asked the marina if I should fly a Q flag, they just laughed.

 

[RupertW]

I live in jersey and have a non vat paid jersey registered boat.

So I am outside the EU and visit regularly ( France a couple of dozen times a year, the UK from time to time)

No one in France has ever shown the slightest bit of interest ...never once been asked to show any papers

On my visits to Uk, again noone interested.

When I arrived in Falmouth last year I asked the marina if I should fly a Q flag, they just laughed.

Well yes - your island is sandwiched between two EU countries. If no deal then everything changes in practice for you because of the change in laws between the two countries.

 

[cueball]

I Thought vessel's built before 1985 are deemed VAT Exempt

 

[Bathdave]

Well yes - your island is sandwiched between two EU countries. If no deal then everything changes in practice for you because of the change in laws between the two countries.

I'm not sure why you say that ?

There's obviously lots of noise about at the moment,

The reality is that, on a practical and pragmatic level, my boat from outside the EU is able to move in and out of EU waters with no impediments

My strong suspicion is that recreational sailors will continue to be able to do so.

Clearly importing a boat on a change of legal residence would fall under different provisions, as it would if I moved to become a resident of France or the UK

 

[blampied]

I live in jersey and have a non vat paid jersey registered boat.

So I am outside the EU and visit regularly ( France a couple of dozen times a year, the UK from time to time)

No one in France has ever shown the slightest bit of interest ...never once been asked to show any papers

On my visits to Uk, again noone interested.

When I arrived in Falmouth last year I asked the marina if I should fly a Q flag, they just laughed.

I'm Jersey as well.
(For UK Britexites we have always been where you are heading, so this is relevant to you)

Same as you, very rearly got checked, with my Jersey motor boat along the adjacent Channel French coast.
But:-
I took my boat for a 4 year cruise down to the Med,
Every couple of weeks on the Med coast of France our paperwork and VAT status was checked. (There are quite a few Jersey boats in the Med, most are company owned, to avoid VAT/TVA, its them they are trying to catch, UK boats would be the same after a hard Britexir) 18 months is the TVA / VAT threshold they are looking for. There needs to be proof that the boat has left EU waters in the last 18 months, or its liable to TVA (and apparently they then fine the same amount again for not having paid it before getting caught) the boat only needs to leave the EU for 24 hours then the 18 months starts again. (So a trip to Morocco and get a recipe from the Moroccon marina to show boat was there). This is fine for the few Channel island, USA and Turkey boats in the Med, but can you imagine in the few weeks leading up to 18 months after a hard BRITEXIT (everyone will have left it to last minuite) thousands of UK boats all try to head to the closest few marinas in Morrocco / Turkey etc all to get a recipt to prove they left the EU. The marinas won't be able to cope.

In theory we had nothing to worry about at the time as our boat, although registered in Jersey, we had bought the boat in the UK VAT paid and had the paperwork.

After experiencing how thorough the French were in checking To be extra sure we thought we would go into Morrocco for a few days before the 18 months was up To get proof of being out of the eu.

From France we went into Spain and they never wanted to check our boat for VAT. When we found the Spanish couldn't be bothered to check we dragged the 18 months out to more than 2 years, only then going to Morocco before we started heading back north, as we knew the Med French customs would be checking. And yes they were.

 

[steve yates]

I'm not sure why you say that ?

There's obviously lots of noise about at the moment,

The reality is that, on a practical and pragmatic level, my boat from outside the EU is able to move in and out of EU waters with no impediments

My strong suspicion is that recreational sailors will continue to be able to do so.

Ok, as blampied has posted! Wrote this before reading his.

Clearly importing a boat on a change of legal residence would fall under different provisions, as it would if I moved to become a resident of France or the UK

Are you talking about short cruises though? Popping over to Brittany for a Poolteam around and back?
I am asking about the implications for long term cruising and spending months or years in the med. And other countries, not just France. That may be significantly different!

 

[Slowtack]

Rule No 1 Strike your colours on encountering an EU vessel
Rule No 2 Abandon ship, take to the liferaft with compass and survival rations
Rule No 3 No scuttling, firing or other sneaky stuff