andytrombone
Well-Known Member
Aha, 200 methinks!
C
Chrusty1
Guest
Yeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaah!!! bag of peanuts for my friend! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Best not chew 'em while you are blowing your horn though?? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Best not chew 'em while you are blowing your horn though?? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Tranona
Well-Known Member
".... but who knows?"
Is this a record? DAKA says something sensible for a change!
That is precisely the issue in this sorry affair. Nearly everybody has an opinion, but nobody "knows" which makes all the outpourings useless.
Is this a record? DAKA says something sensible for a change!
That is precisely the issue in this sorry affair. Nearly everybody has an opinion, but nobody "knows" which makes all the outpourings useless.
DAKA
Well-Known Member
DAKA\'s conclusion summary
Seeing as red Funnel and Cowes HM initial response's coincide with my assessment there is an area within the regulations/bylaws that causes concern and I hope the HM takes the opportunity to clarify the situation and hopefully amend the Bylaws....................
ALL boats (big and small) are obliged to enter Cowes by the fairway.
ALL boats in the fairway must navigate either to the starboard side or cross it so as not to interfere with another boat.
That effectively means that not only does a sailing dinghy have to keep out of the way of ferries but he also has to keep out the way of a rib.
The fact that the rib could safely navigate around the sailing dinghy while remaining in the channel/fairway is irrelevant, the regs state all boats ( sailing dinghy included) must navigate to the starboard side of the channel so as not to impede another boat who can only navigate in the fairway. remember ALL boats must navigate within the fairway which includes the rib !
The fairway extends to Prince consort/Gurnard.
Of course during cowes week exemptions may be applied for .
Its all here in the Cowes By laws
Seeing as red Funnel and Cowes HM initial response's coincide with my assessment there is an area within the regulations/bylaws that causes concern and I hope the HM takes the opportunity to clarify the situation and hopefully amend the Bylaws....................
ALL boats (big and small) are obliged to enter Cowes by the fairway.
ALL boats in the fairway must navigate either to the starboard side or cross it so as not to interfere with another boat.
That effectively means that not only does a sailing dinghy have to keep out of the way of ferries but he also has to keep out the way of a rib.
The fact that the rib could safely navigate around the sailing dinghy while remaining in the channel/fairway is irrelevant, the regs state all boats ( sailing dinghy included) must navigate to the starboard side of the channel so as not to impede another boat who can only navigate in the fairway. remember ALL boats must navigate within the fairway which includes the rib !
The fairway extends to Prince consort/Gurnard.
Of course during cowes week exemptions may be applied for .
Its all here in the Cowes By laws
l'escargot
Well-Known Member
Re: DAKA\'s conclusion summary
You need to re read it Pete, most of your interpretations and boundaries are at variance with those in the bye laws.
Can you point me in the direction of any chart or document which supports your claim that "The fairway extends to Prince consort/Gurnard"?
You need to re read it Pete, most of your interpretations and boundaries are at variance with those in the bye laws.
Can you point me in the direction of any chart or document which supports your claim that "The fairway extends to Prince consort/Gurnard"?
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Re: DAKA\'s conclusion summary
It is not about the fairway or where you suppose the incident took place. It is the apportionment of blame based on one photograph when you were not even there that offends.
And again, just because Red Funnel and the HM are making statements it does not mean they are true.
Why do you always try to twist events about which you know little to fit your view of the world rather than wait, as in this case for an investigation and report which will be based on a careful assessment of all the available evidence.
Oh, and it is not just you that I am having a go at, it is a common failing of this forum that people weigh in with opinions that are not based on fact and are often proved wrong. Two good examples recently were the case of the Powercat in Greece where people castigated the builder, but when the "truth" came out the account of the purchaser was not what actually happened. The other was a disgraceful attack on a sailing school based on one person's whinge which they never substantiated and was at odds with the accounts of all the other parties involved.
By all means have debate, discussion whatever you call it, on issues, but keep it within the bounds of reality and not imagination.
It is not about the fairway or where you suppose the incident took place. It is the apportionment of blame based on one photograph when you were not even there that offends.
And again, just because Red Funnel and the HM are making statements it does not mean they are true.
Why do you always try to twist events about which you know little to fit your view of the world rather than wait, as in this case for an investigation and report which will be based on a careful assessment of all the available evidence.
Oh, and it is not just you that I am having a go at, it is a common failing of this forum that people weigh in with opinions that are not based on fact and are often proved wrong. Two good examples recently were the case of the Powercat in Greece where people castigated the builder, but when the "truth" came out the account of the purchaser was not what actually happened. The other was a disgraceful attack on a sailing school based on one person's whinge which they never substantiated and was at odds with the accounts of all the other parties involved.
By all means have debate, discussion whatever you call it, on issues, but keep it within the bounds of reality and not imagination.
Phoenix of Hamble
Well-Known Member
Re: DAKA\'s conclusion summary
What a complete load of utter poppycock.... you really don't have any desire to apply the rules do you, just a desire to stir things up......
What a complete load of utter poppycock.... you really don't have any desire to apply the rules do you, just a desire to stir things up......
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
Re: DAKA\'s conclusion summary
You know, Daka, you really must learn to read.
ALL boats (big and small) are obliged to enter Cowes by the fairway.
15. Vessels entering or leaving the Harbour or Roads during the period commencing on the 1st day of March and ending on the 30th day of November in every year shall navigate within the fairway approach as shown by pecked lines on the Admiralty Charts.
Fairway approach, not fairway, as you state. In fact the byelaws expressly recognise that vessels may be navigating out of the fairway. In the 1988 Amends "11.(a) The Master of a small vessel which is not confined to a fairway shall not intentionally make use of the fairway so as to cause obstruction to other vessels which can navigate only within the fairway".
ALL boats in the fairway must navigate either to the starboard side or cross it so as not to interfere with another boat.
Nowhere in the Byelaws your link references does the word starboard appear. The only byelaw reference I can find which comes near your interpretation is: "The Master of a vessel crossing a fairway or of a vessel turning shall so navigate as not intentionally to cause obstruction to any other vessel.:
That effectively means that not only does a sailing dinghy have to keep out of the way of ferries but he also has to keep out the way of a rib.
If applied to the situation in the byelaw quoted above, it also means that a ferry or rib that is turning in or crossing the fairway shall not cause obstruction to a sailing dinghy proceeding along the fairway.
The fact that the rib could safely navigate around the sailing dinghy while remaining in the channel/fairway is irrelevant, the regs state all boats ( sailing dinghy included) must navigate to the starboard side of the channel so as not to impede another boat who can only navigate in the fairway. Once again, I can find no reference to starboard anywhere in the byelaws.
remember ALL boats must navigate within the fairway which includes the rib ! Wrong again. No compulsion for ALL vessels to navigate in the Fairway, only to to enter or leave using the fairway approach. See also 1988 11(a) above.
The fairway extends to Prince consort/Gurnard. Oh no it doesn't! ""The main harbour fairway approaches" are defined as the area within the pecked lines as shown on the Admiralty Charts. "The main navigable fairway" is defined as the area within the line to the east from No 3 Fairway Buoy southwards to Watch House Light Beacon, thence by outer line of pontoons and jetty landings to the Chain Ferry and the area within the line to the west from No 4 Fairway buoy southwards to No 6 Buoy and thence to No 8 Buoy. Thereafter, the area of the fairway continues to the south between Shepards Wharf and British Hovercraft Corporation/Red Funnel frontage, East Cowes; Thetis Wharf and Trinity Wharf; thence the area between the Chain Ferry landings; thereafter, the area of the fairway is bounded by the line of moorings on each side of the river within the jurisdiction of the Cowes Harbour Commission to the south."
So there!
You know, Daka, you really must learn to read.
ALL boats (big and small) are obliged to enter Cowes by the fairway.
15. Vessels entering or leaving the Harbour or Roads during the period commencing on the 1st day of March and ending on the 30th day of November in every year shall navigate within the fairway approach as shown by pecked lines on the Admiralty Charts.
Fairway approach, not fairway, as you state. In fact the byelaws expressly recognise that vessels may be navigating out of the fairway. In the 1988 Amends "11.(a) The Master of a small vessel which is not confined to a fairway shall not intentionally make use of the fairway so as to cause obstruction to other vessels which can navigate only within the fairway".
ALL boats in the fairway must navigate either to the starboard side or cross it so as not to interfere with another boat.
Nowhere in the Byelaws your link references does the word starboard appear. The only byelaw reference I can find which comes near your interpretation is: "The Master of a vessel crossing a fairway or of a vessel turning shall so navigate as not intentionally to cause obstruction to any other vessel.:
That effectively means that not only does a sailing dinghy have to keep out of the way of ferries but he also has to keep out the way of a rib.
If applied to the situation in the byelaw quoted above, it also means that a ferry or rib that is turning in or crossing the fairway shall not cause obstruction to a sailing dinghy proceeding along the fairway.
The fact that the rib could safely navigate around the sailing dinghy while remaining in the channel/fairway is irrelevant, the regs state all boats ( sailing dinghy included) must navigate to the starboard side of the channel so as not to impede another boat who can only navigate in the fairway. Once again, I can find no reference to starboard anywhere in the byelaws.
remember ALL boats must navigate within the fairway which includes the rib ! Wrong again. No compulsion for ALL vessels to navigate in the Fairway, only to to enter or leave using the fairway approach. See also 1988 11(a) above.
The fairway extends to Prince consort/Gurnard. Oh no it doesn't! ""The main harbour fairway approaches" are defined as the area within the pecked lines as shown on the Admiralty Charts. "The main navigable fairway" is defined as the area within the line to the east from No 3 Fairway Buoy southwards to Watch House Light Beacon, thence by outer line of pontoons and jetty landings to the Chain Ferry and the area within the line to the west from No 4 Fairway buoy southwards to No 6 Buoy and thence to No 8 Buoy. Thereafter, the area of the fairway continues to the south between Shepards Wharf and British Hovercraft Corporation/Red Funnel frontage, East Cowes; Thetis Wharf and Trinity Wharf; thence the area between the Chain Ferry landings; thereafter, the area of the fairway is bounded by the line of moorings on each side of the river within the jurisdiction of the Cowes Harbour Commission to the south."
So there!
DAKA
Well-Known Member
Re: DAKA\'s conclusion summary
I thank you for your extensive research into your post which helps to clarify much of the situation within the inner harbour.
I agree to wait for the official confirmation and hope someone has the guts to state which craft was the technical stand on boat in the Fairway approach.
Some asked which chart I was looking on ......... it is the one that covers Cowes from the Admiralty chart folio of the Solent. The set will be 10 years old.
The purple lines go to prince consort and Gurnard, the word 'Fairway' is written on the chart in purple and there is wording in purple on the chart regarding the regulations within the purple area.
This post is in no way meant as an argument in any shape or form.
I post simply as an explanation on how I arrived at my conclusion which was not designed as a troll.*
*Excepting this bit of course
/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Sailing, don't you just love it to death !
.
I thank you for your extensive research into your post which helps to clarify much of the situation within the inner harbour.
I agree to wait for the official confirmation and hope someone has the guts to state which craft was the technical stand on boat in the Fairway approach.
Some asked which chart I was looking on ......... it is the one that covers Cowes from the Admiralty chart folio of the Solent. The set will be 10 years old.
The purple lines go to prince consort and Gurnard, the word 'Fairway' is written on the chart in purple and there is wording in purple on the chart regarding the regulations within the purple area.
This post is in no way meant as an argument in any shape or form.
I post simply as an explanation on how I arrived at my conclusion which was not designed as a troll.*
*Excepting this bit of course
/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Sailing, don't you just love it to death !
.
Cutter
Well-Known Member
Re: DAKA\'s conclusion summary
orig link to picture doesnt work any more.
Has it been pulled?
Just to keep things going for a while......
orig link to picture doesnt work any more.
Has it been pulled?
Just to keep things going for a while......
C
Chrusty1
Guest
Re: What a dickhead.....
Wassup!?.....you run out of leaches??? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Wassup!?.....you run out of leaches??? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Rivers & creeks
Well-Known Member
That\'ll do boys, that\'ll do
[ QUOTE ]
orig link to picture doesnt work any more.
[/ QUOTE ] Have you not got the message yet?
[ QUOTE ]
orig link to picture doesnt work any more.
[/ QUOTE ] Have you not got the message yet?
C
Chrusty1
Guest
What a Dickhead....
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
orig link to picture doesnt work any more.
[/ QUOTE ] Have you not got the message yet?
[/ QUOTE ]
Hey! stop changing the subject line of my thread you!
Can't be having such subversive behavior! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
orig link to picture doesnt work any more.
[/ QUOTE ] Have you not got the message yet?
[/ QUOTE ]
Hey! stop changing the subject line of my thread you!
Can't be having such subversive behavior! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
jimi
Well-Known Member
Bandits at 5, Algie ..
Help, I fear I am undone, Roger!
Help, I fear I am undone, Roger!
C
Chrusty1
Guest
Re: Bandits at 5, Algie ..
Gerroff! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Gerroff! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Rustyknight
Well-Known Member
Re: Bandits at 5, Algie ..
[ QUOTE ]
Help, I fear I am undone, Roger!
[/ QUOTE ]
Is rogering allowed on Scuttlebut?
[ QUOTE ]
Help, I fear I am undone, Roger!
[/ QUOTE ]
Is rogering allowed on Scuttlebut?
l'escargot
Well-Known Member
Re: DAKA\'s conclusion summary
[ QUOTE ]
...The purple lines go to prince consort and Gurnard...
[/ QUOTE ]
They don't. They go out to a line drawn from Consort to Gurnard.
[ QUOTE ]
...The purple lines go to prince consort and Gurnard...
[/ QUOTE ]
They don't. They go out to a line drawn from Consort to Gurnard.
lw395
Well-Known Member
Re: DAKA\'s conclusion summary
I think Cowes LNTM's should give all the information. They do not it seems. They give some rules for navigation and don't even hint that there are another lot in the Byelaws.
I think Cowes LNTM's should give all the information. They do not it seems. They give some rules for navigation and don't even hint that there are another lot in the Byelaws.
DAKA
Well-Known Member
Re: DAKA\'s conclusion summary
[ QUOTE ]
I think Cowes LNTM's should give all the information. They do not it seems. They give some rules for navigation and don't even hint that there are another lot in the Byelaws.
[/ QUOTE ]
Dont you guys ever bother to read your charts ?
Have a gander on this chart
this one, zoom in, look where the fairway is and note under the word fairway it says see notes, scan across to the side, zoom in on the notes and decide who is the troll !
rule 9 states narrow channel or Fairway not narrow fairway.
<span style="color:blue">In Rule 9 a vessel proceeding along the course of a narrow channel or fairway is obliged to keep "as near to the outer limit of the channel or fairway which lies on her starboard side as is safe and practicable." The same Rule obliges a vessel of less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel not to impede the passage of a vessel "which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway."
</span>
The Cowes bylaws oblige the ferry to enter using the fairway so the ferry can only navigate within the fairway.
Zoom in on this chart and you will see the term 'fairway' clearly written and also notes on the chart which specifically mentions navigation in the fairway which is basically what I have been attempting to convey to you all.
Now you have it in black and white !
http://www.harbourguides.com/charts.php/Cowes
[ QUOTE ]
I think Cowes LNTM's should give all the information. They do not it seems. They give some rules for navigation and don't even hint that there are another lot in the Byelaws.
[/ QUOTE ]
Dont you guys ever bother to read your charts ?
Have a gander on this chart
this one, zoom in, look where the fairway is and note under the word fairway it says see notes, scan across to the side, zoom in on the notes and decide who is the troll !
rule 9 states narrow channel or Fairway not narrow fairway.
<span style="color:blue">In Rule 9 a vessel proceeding along the course of a narrow channel or fairway is obliged to keep "as near to the outer limit of the channel or fairway which lies on her starboard side as is safe and practicable." The same Rule obliges a vessel of less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel not to impede the passage of a vessel "which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway."
</span>
The Cowes bylaws oblige the ferry to enter using the fairway so the ferry can only navigate within the fairway.
Zoom in on this chart and you will see the term 'fairway' clearly written and also notes on the chart which specifically mentions navigation in the fairway which is basically what I have been attempting to convey to you all.
Now you have it in black and white !
http://www.harbourguides.com/charts.php/Cowes
lw395
Well-Known Member
Re: DAKA\'s conclusion summary
Rule 9 is entitled 'Narrow Channels'
I have always taken this as a hint that it applies to Narrow Channels and Narrow Fairways....
Rule 9 is entitled 'Narrow Channels'
I have always taken this as a hint that it applies to Narrow Channels and Narrow Fairways....